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Sunday, May 05, 2013

In Reply: Be A Model for Your Beliefs, and Learn From The Beliefs of Others, Too

In reply to a post and discussion titled "atheism and christianity friendships?" on the Nerdfighters ning.
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I believe it's important to expose oneself to different beliefs, religious and otherwise. It helps you learn about the world and to question all you think you know and believe, which is generally a good thing, whether the questions ultimately lead you to change or to confirm your beliefs. The key is respect for the people one speaks to or about, and tolerance for difference. Whatever your religious beliefs, there will always be those who are "going to Hell," or "wasting their lives taking cues from an invisible friend who doesn't exist," (depending). And while it's worthwhile to make some effort to save them from the "folly" of their beliefs (or lack of them), there comes a point where you just have to let them be as wrong as they choose to be... And that can be hard, especially for those who take their religious beliefs seriously (and that includes non-believers, too). It's difficult to watch someone you care about go down what you whole-heartedly believe to be a "wrong" path.

I tend to think you can't browbeat or force someone to change their beliefs, and there's little value in getting heated about it. Instead, be a model for your beliefs. Live your values--and sure, talk about them when appropriate--but don't become hostile when someone doesn't believe what you do, even if THEY become hostile toward you or your beliefs. Agree to disagree. Learn from them. Teach them too, if they're open to it, but accept that some otherwise wonderful people are just bound and determined to be wrong about God and faith...and there's nothing you can do about it. I still think it benefits both you and them to be in each other's lives, in spite of how dead wrong they are.

(Personally, I'm another of those Unitarian Universalist types and as such, I believe there are many roads to bliss, and that no Beneficent Force would ever refuse entry to anyone who tried, but got the particular song and dance wrong...but obviously, I may be sadly mistaken.)
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Posted Sunday, 5/5/13, 3:00 AM (or thereabouts...)

Saturday, April 13, 2013

In Reply: "Speaking out is seldom if ever un-American, whether in support of Geller and her bigotry or in opposition to it." (Bigotry, Pamela Geller, Dishonesty, Free Speech, Protest)

Revised and extended, in reply to the following comment at the post Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch:
"repsec3 here is the official reason given by the synagogue (not PG) for their withdrawal. They were worried about the safety of their children, etc obviously from radical Islam! What's not to understand? Nearly every time there is a conference on shariah or radcial islam, the hotels etc are pressured to cancel as happened here by a government official no less among others. It's deniers like you that enable their UnAmerican tactics...
'As the notoriety and media exposure of the planned program this Sunday have increased, so has the legal liability and potential security exposure of our institution and it's [sic] member families. In an era of heightened security concerns it is irresponsible to jeopardize the safety of those who call Great Neck Synagogue home, especially our children, even at the risk of diverting attention from a potentially important voice in the ongoing debate.'"
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My Reply:

Funny that you choose to include "obviously from radical islam" in your response, when that obviously wasn't in the synagogue's statement. The only announced protest in opposition to Geller's appearance that I can find was organized by members of the Great Neck Synagogue, who intended to hold up signs across the street. The interfaith organization and the rabbis who were opposed pretty specifically said they did not intend to attend or to stage any protest. In fact, the only real push for a large on-site protest was being made by Ms. Geller's supporters. (And that's to say nothing of the armed bodyguards she announced she'd be bringing with her. Necessary or not, I'd imagine that they upped the synagogue's potential legal liability and security exposure.)

Now, I do think it was somewhat short-sighted of the synagogue to choose to have this event while the children were attending Sunday school at the same time--and I question why they didn't change the time of the event once they realized it would likely be an issue--but the fact that any protests might frighten the children or make it more difficult for their parents to drop them off and pick them up--both fully reasonable concerns--is not the same as suggesting that any individual or group threatened the safety or security of a single parent or child.

Speaking out is seldom if ever un-American, whether in support of Geller and her bigotry or in opposition to it.
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Posted: 12:13 am on Saturday, April 13, 2013
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Added Links:
Sunday, April 14 Event Cancellation : Great Neck Synagogue
Shul Cancels Pamela Geller — But Fails To Take Stand – Forward Thinking – Forward.com
Chabad to host Geller after Great Neck Synagogue drops controversial speaker - The Island Now: News
Geller Forum Shifts To New Venues | The Jewish Week
Controversial anti-jihad blogger will bring armed guards to synagogue speech | PIX 11

Friday, April 12, 2013

In Reply: "Geller has every right to speak. But free speech does not guarantee an audience, protection from criticism, or the use of someone else's soapbox." (Dishonest media, Pamela Geller, Bigotry, Free Speech)

In reply to the following three comments offered at the post Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch:
"The fact that you went to the state-run media confirms the fact that you're a low information voter. Did you happen to ask the police?"
and
"Not everybody agrees that it is bigotry. Why are you trying to rob people of the right to hear anything they want to.Are you the parents of those who wish to listen and formulate their opinions after hearing Ms.Gellar,"
and
"Geller's not a bigot, YOU ARE.

Geller speaks the truth about islam and the Left's joint group-grope against America and Israel, and you and the far left and jihadis threatened a riot at the synagogue, forcing the cancellation.

Keep it up, you will eventually get the violence you are aiming for, but you better have bought your toe tags by then, because you won't like the result."

---
My reply:
"Not everybody agrees that it is bigotry."

Not everyone agrees that it isn't, either. So why would you want to rob people of the right to say they believe it is bigotry, in very much the same way as you accuse others of "robbing" Geller's "right" to speak. (Geller has every right to speak. What she doesn't have is a right to speak at a private venue that finds her speech offensive, or dangerous. Free speech does not guarantee an audience, or someone else's soapbox to stand on, either.)

"threatened a riot at the synagogue"

Any citation for that? Because again, no media source--including this one--is making any such allegation. The only person saying anyone was threatened is Pamela Geller, in her interpretation of the synagogue's decision. No one from the synagogue, or the media, or the local police has reported any confirmed threat to any person place or thing. (And with respect to Natalie's "state-run media" comment from yesterday, I'm pretty sure that Mr Jacques is not a tool of the government... Not positive, mind you, but pretty sure... YMMV...)
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Posted: 3:29 pm on Friday, April 12, 2013

Thursday, April 11, 2013

In Reply: Threats against the neighborhood, the children, or the Great Neck Synagogue? Where? (Pamela Geller, Bigotry, Dishonesty, Free Speech)

In reply to the following comment at the post Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch:
"The threats to the residents of the neighborhood, against their children, and against the synagogue are more real than Geller's unproven bigotry. Read her work and enlighten your ignorance. Then stand for her freedom of speech or most surely you will lose your own.
This synagogue stood alone against weeks of threats and intimidation. There must be a complete investigation of the threats and those responsible must be prosecuted. Freedom denied to one American is denied to all.
Ironically, these tactics have spread Geller's work to an enormously wider audience than that of one temple."

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I asked several media outlets--including this one [see e-mail appended below]--to document these supposed threats against the neighborhood, the children, or the synagogue, or to at least obtain statements from people associated with the synagogue saying that anyone was actually threatened. No media outlet or synagogue official has gone on the record with any threat. Make of that what you will.

Posted: 8:53 pm on Thursday, April 11, 2013
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E-mail:
To: rich.jacques@patch.com (and sent to several other media outlets who'd reported on the Geller controversy)

Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller

Pamela Geller, Jewishpress.com and other supportive social media outlets are implying that protesters threatened Sunday school children who attend classes at the synagogue, and that is why the synagogue board cancelled Pamela Geller's speech. Please interview the rabbi and others at the synagogue, and confirm or debunk that allegation. If you do find threats, please post specific examples if possible.

Wednesday, April 10, 2013

In Reply: "Bigotry has no place in a synagogue, in any house of worship, or anywhere else in America." (Pamela Geller, Free Speech, Bigotry, Religion)

In reply to Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch
--

While I wish they'd done so because they believe bigotry has no place in their synagogue (or in any house of worship, or anywhere else in America, for that matter), I'm glad they cancelled her speech, if only because *I* believe there should be no place for bigotry in America, least of all in a house of worship.

Posted: 9:51 pm on Wednesday, April 10, 2013

Wednesday, March 27, 2013

X-Post: Nothing Good Lasts Forever: Dishonest Donald Douglas Lashes Out Again

After just over seven weeks of blessed silence in which crazy stalker Donald Kent Douglas curbed his need to lash out against me, Dishonest Don let loose with another crazy screed talking more about who and what he wants to fool his his readers into believing about me than about the subject at hand (marriage equality, this time).

There's little point dissecting the thing--it's just more of the same epithets and "guilt by association" nonsense that Donald Douglas usually writes, especially where I'm concerned. If anyone is interested in my views on marriage equality, they're not hard to find (look here or here), and they don't need translating or explanation by a third party, least of all some crazy obsessed fuck who periodically lashes out at me over the internet, unprovoked.

But since I'm here anyway, I'll crosspost the main part of the post that brought Dishonest Donald Douglas slithering out from under his rock. Those interested can read what I wrote, and then compare it with Dishonest Donald's rant over on his blog, and decide for themselves...:
=======

What'd I Say?: We Just Disagree (Marriage Equality)

I recently had a conversation in the comment section of a youtube video: Adam Carolla on Gay Parents vs Straight Parents (I'll link to it, but I refuse to embed the thing, both because I disagree with Carolla's take on the subject and because it's altogether a pretty obnoxious video.)

While the conversation started out kinda rocky--in part because I thought something the guy had said was kind of bigoted, and lashed out in reply in a way I wish I hadn't--it was generally not too bad a discussion. (In fact, I'll likely append it to the end of this post, in case anyone's interested.) The gentleman also sent me three e-mails to my youtube account containing links to posts with which he agreed, and which, surprisingly enough, agreed with him, too. What follows is my response to all three posts, as well as the discussion we had. When I stared writing, I initially intended it to be an e-mail reply but given the length, I decided to send him a link to this, instead. The title of this post is taken from the last of his three e-mails.

"homosexual marriage
Not to get all evangelical but the author below has written extensively on the issue of homosexual marriage and politics. His street cred is total and you will find his various articles insightful and even surprising.
I did.
R.O. Lopez writes from the heart and I feel you will benefit from his thoughts. The link below is not the only article and you can go to the archives and find his literary works and they are all valuable insights into this issue most people never even know they don't know.
Enjoy.
American Thinker: The Soul-Crushing Scorched-Earth Battle for Gay Marriage

---

I just stumbled over this...
American Thinker: The Annulment of Same-sex Marriage

---

We just disagree
So you see, there IS another side of the debate than yours. Remember: I am one of THOSE people.
American Thinker: The Price of Gay Marriage: The Galvanic Corrosion of Language
"
My reply:

Of course there are more sides to the marriage equality debate than mine. In fact, I believe there are more than just two, although the question of equal marriage rights has only two possible answers; equality before the law or inequality.

Everyone has a right to believe as they will, for religious, ethical, or societal reasons. But only one side of this debate is advocating that the other be prohibited by law from acting in accord with their beliefs.

I've read through all 3 of the "American Thinker" articles you offered links to, and trust me when I say I've read many other articles and posts at similar sites by those authors and others with similar views. The fact that you (and they) believe the primary purpose of laws and statutes governing civil marriage is procreation and parenthood simply does not make it so. The laws pertaining to the birth and care of children are the ones that say so. To read more into the rest of the laws pertaining to marriage--the ones that are about tax rates, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, wills, and the rest of the over 1000 federal, state, and local rights and benefits automatically granted to traditional couples at the moment they say "I do"--and that DON'T specifically mention children--is seeing what you wish to see, rather than what's really there. Only a fraction of those same 1000+ rights and benefits are offered to same-sex couples, even in states that allow civil unions or have marriage equality.

Procreation is a natural phenomenon. Marriage is a human creation. It has probably always had a religious component, a legal one, and one based strictly in nature, involving procreation and sexual desire (both to continue the species, and for pleasure, as well). Sometimes those components are in synch, and sometimes they're not.

I understand the natural argument, but given that so few animals choose and stick with one mate for the majority of their lives, I don't see why anyone arguing in favor of marriage, traditional or otherwise, should or would offer nature as an argument. Were we to use nature as our guide, we'd be doing much better at propagating the species, but we'd be screwing like...well, bunnies, with little if any regard for the man or woman we were with the night before.

Once we get past nature, the religious and legal definitions and purposes of marriage have never been set in stone. I can appreciate that the Judeo-Christian God defined marriage in a way that is largely accepted in these parts (especially by the jews and christians who live in these parts), but there are other religions with other beliefs that define marriage in different ways. (Even different denominations within christianity define marriage in slightly different ways.)

A 10 minute google search suggests that a relatively small but still significant number of same-sex marriages and unions have occurred throughout all of recorded history. (Some were legal (that is, civil) marriages accepted by law and the cultures in which they took place, while others were religiously recognized--including by the Christian church. (St. Serge and St. Bacchus, Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his companion John). One of the first laws against same sex marriage was in ancient Rome. Presumably they passed the law to stop same-sex marriages that were taking place at the time.

Even aside that, the religious, legal, and socially recognized and accepted rules regarding marriage have changed in all sorts of ways throughout history, from the ages of the participants, the number of participants, whether people of different religions could marry, whether people of different races could marry, the rules regarding divorce, the rules regarding remarriage after divorce, the practice of marrying the widow of one's deceased brother, even if you were already married, dowries, the role of husbands and wives in the home and out, the necessity of love (or any prior relationship at all) between the participants, ..., ... There is very little about legal marriage, the rite of marriage, or the social definitions of marriage that has NOT changed since each of these institutions began.

It's up to one's church and scripture to decide which changes to accept and which to reject and refuse; I would never want government law to determine religious doctrine, though I do believe change is possible, in that there are already faiths and denominations that allow gay folks to serve and to marry, and because of the extent to which an actual threat to traditional marriage--divorce--has already been accepted by so much of the mainstream religious community throughout the world.

Legally though, appeals to nature, to church, or even to tradition and "the way it's always been" just don't hold up under scrutiny. Marriage law is not primarily about continuing the species or the optimal raising of children, especially to the detriment of any family situation other than the supposed optimal one for raising children. If it were, we would hear all of the results of these studies that say "mommy and daddy in committed marriage is best," and perhaps outlaw more of what is less than optimal... poverty, single parenthood, divorce, ...

I do believe children should have male and female solid long-term role models in their lives, but I don't believe US law should prevent couples from marrying or raising children in an effort to encourage (or really, enforce) those standards.

Legal marriage can and often does include children, but it isn't--and shouldn't be--defined by children or the possibility of creating them. To my knowledge, it never has been--except of course, as an argument against marriage equality.... (Women were (and in a few cases, still are) tested for virginity, and blood tests were done to prevent certain diseases (chiefly syphilis, but TB and german measles were also mentioned), but I know of no tests for fertility, or laws or church doctrine that require children or the possibility of them to start or maintain a legal (or religiously recognized) marriage. We don't even require couples to sign an affidavit affirming that they are able to procreate prior to allowing them to marry, which would require no testing.

It's not that I don't understand the arguments those opposed to legal marriage equality are making... I just don't think they hold all that much water.
=======

Read what we each wrote, and decide for yourselves...

Links:

American Power: Anti-Marriage Extremist Walter James Casper III and the Unitarian Push for Polyamorous Sexual Licentiousness

What'd I Say?: We Just Disagree (Marriage Equality)

Obsessed much, Dr. Douglas?
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An American Nihilist X-post

Thursday, March 21, 2013

We Just Disagree (Marriage Equality)

I recently had a conversation in the comment section of a youtube video: Adam Carolla on Gay Parents vs Straight Parents (I'll link to it, but I refuse to embed the thing, both because I disagree with Carolla's take on the subject and because it's altogether a pretty obnoxious video.)

While the conversation started out kinda rocky--in part because I thought something the guy had said was kind of bigoted, and lashed out in reply in a way I wish I hadn't--it was generally not too bad a discussion. (In fact, I'll likely append it to the end of this post, in case anyone's interested.) The gentleman also sent me three e-mails to my youtube account containing links to posts with which he agreed, and which, surprisingly enough, agreed with him, too. What follows is my response to all three posts, as well as the discussion we had. When I stared writing, I initially intended it to be an e-mail reply but given the length, I decided to send him a link to this, instead. The title of this post is taken from the last of his three e-mails.

"homosexual marriage
Not to get all evangelical but the author below has written extensively on the issue of homosexual marriage and politics. His street cred is total and you will find his various articles insightful and even surprising.
I did.
R.O. Lopez writes from the heart and I feel you will benefit from his thoughts. The link below is not the only article and you can go to the archives and find his literary works and they are all valuable insights into this issue most people never even know they don't know.
Enjoy.
American Thinker: The Soul-Crushing Scorched-Earth Battle for Gay Marriage

---

I just stumbled over this...
American Thinker: The Annulment of Same-sex Marriage

---

We just disagree
So you see, there IS another side of the debate than yours. Remember: I am one of THOSE people.
American Thinker: The Price of Gay Marriage: The Galvanic Corrosion of Language
"
My reply:

Of course there are more sides to the marriage equality debate than mine. In fact, I believe there are more than just two, although the question of equal marriage rights has only two possible answers; equality before the law or inequality.

Everyone has a right to believe as they will, for religious, ethical, or societal reasons. But only one side of this debate is advocating that the other be prohibited by law from acting in accord with their beliefs.

I've read through all 3 of the "American Thinker" articles you offered links to, and trust me when I say I've read many other articles and posts at similar sites by those authors and others with similar views. The fact that you (and they) believe the primary purpose of laws and statutes governing civil marriage is procreation and parenthood simply does not make it so. The laws pertaining to the birth and care of children are the ones that say so. To read more into the rest of the laws pertaining to marriage--the ones that are about tax rates, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, wills, and the rest of the over 1000 federal, state, and local rights and benefits automatically granted to traditional couples at the moment they say "I do"--and that DON'T specifically mention children--is seeing what you wish to see, rather than what's really there. Only a fraction of those same 1000+ rights and benefits are offered to same-sex couples, even in states that allow civil unions or have marriage equality.

Procreation is a natural phenomenon. Marriage is a human creation. It has probably always had a religious component, a legal one, and one based strictly in nature, involving procreation and sexual desire (both to continue the species, and for pleasure, as well). Sometimes those components are in synch, and sometimes they're not.

I understand the natural argument, but given that so few animals choose and stick with one mate for the majority of their lives, I don't see why anyone arguing in favor of marriage, traditional or otherwise, should or would offer nature as an argument. Were we to use nature as our guide, we'd be doing much better at propagating the species, but we'd be screwing like...well, bunnies, with little if any regard for the man or woman we were with the night before.

Once we get past nature, the religious and legal definitions and purposes of marriage have never been set in stone. I can appreciate that the Judeo-Christian God defined marriage in a way that is largely accepted in these parts (especially by the jews and christians who live in these parts), but there are other religions with other beliefs that define marriage in different ways. (Even different denominations within christianity define marriage in slightly different ways.)

A 10 minute google search suggests that a relatively small but still significant number of same-sex marriages and unions have occurred throughout all of recorded history. (Some were legal (that is, civil) marriages accepted by law and the cultures in which they took place, while others were religiously recognized--including by the Christian church. (St. Serge and St. Bacchus, Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his companion John). One of the first laws against same sex marriage was in ancient Rome. Presumably they passed the law to stop same-sex marriages that were taking place at the time.

Even aside that, the religious, legal, and socially recognized and accepted rules regarding marriage have changed in all sorts of ways throughout history, from the ages of the participants, the number of participants, whether people of different religions could marry, whether people of different races could marry, the rules regarding divorce, the rules regarding remarriage after divorce, the practice of marrying the widow of one's deceased brother, even if you were already married, dowries, the role of husbands and wives in the home and out, the necessity of love (or any prior relationship at all) between the participants, ..., ... There is very little about legal marriage, the rite of marriage, or the social definitions of marriage that has NOT changed since each of these institutions began.

It's up to one's church and scripture to decide which changes to accept and which to reject and refuse; I would never want government law to determine religious doctrine, though I do believe change is possible, in that there are already faiths and denominations that allow gay folks to serve and to marry, and because of the extent to which an actual threat to traditional marriage--divorce--has already been accepted by so much of the mainstream religious community throughout the world.

Legally though, appeals to nature, to church, or even to tradition and "the way it's always been" just don't hold up under scrutiny. Marriage law is not primarily about continuing the species or the optimal raising of children, especially to the detriment of any family situation other than the supposed optimal one for raising children. If it were, we would hear all of the results of these studies that say "mommy and daddy in committed marriage is best," and perhaps outlaw more of what is less than optimal... poverty, single parenthood, divorce, ...

I do believe children should have male and female solid long-term role models in their lives, but I don't believe US law should prevent couples from marrying or raising children in an effort to encourage (or really, enforce) those standards.

Legal marriage can and often does include children, but it isn't--and shouldn't be--defined by children or the possibility of creating them. To my knowledge, it never has been--except of course, as an argument against marriage equality.... (Women were (and in a few cases, still are) tested for virginity, and blood tests were done to prevent certain diseases (chiefly syphilis, but TB and german measles were also mentioned), but I know of no tests for fertility, or laws or church doctrine that require children or the possibility of them to start or maintain a legal (or religiously recognized) marriage. We don't even require couples to sign an affidavit affirming that they are able to procreate prior to allowing them to marry, which would require no testing.

It's not that I don't understand the arguments those opposed to legal marriage equality are making... I just don't think they hold all that much water.
---

The rest of the conversation(s) with which I was involved. (I think it'll quickly become obvious which one was with the guy who sent the links.)
I [will, at some point] put the comment links in, but they don't seem to work for me... All of 'em just start the obnoxious video, but don't connect to the comment they're supposed to "link" to. Go figure... (I'll add them anyway, in case it's a browser thing or something, and they work for others.)
And finally, I tried to keep the threads together and in order, so I marked where threads ended and repeated comments that got more than one reply. As a result, not every comment is in strict "time posted" order, but each thread is complete and in conversational order.:

buffalowingmediabias: As I said in my video description, go to the FCKH8 youtube channel. You can see what the Gaystapo is championing. Look at the whole "anti-bullying" campaign. They are trying to give people who dare to oppose the gay agenda the stigma that they are bullies. They throw around the word "hate" like there's no tomorrow, promoting the stigma that if you oppose the gay agenda, it must be out of hate. They also make generalizations about religious people all the time.
repsac3: People against gay marriage shouldn't get gay married. But when they insist that NO ONE can get gay married because they're against it, they're behaving like bullies.
buffalowingmediabias: If you don't like religious people, then don't be religious. See how lame that sounds?
repsac3: I don't know whether or not that's some kinda canned response, but it isn't in any way analogous to what I actually said...
A more fitting analogy would be "if you're opposed to religious services, don't attend church," which, like what I said about not being a part of a gay marriage if you're against gay marriages, makes perfect sense to me.
(What you said instead WAS kinda lame... Although, if a person really didn't like religious people, I could see his/her being reluctant to become one.)

+++++++++++


repsac3: People against gay marriage shouldn't get gay married. But when they insist that NO ONE can get gay married because they're against it, they're behaving like bullies.
1776stubborn: Don't be dense. Toleration is not acceptance. You want acceptance, but you pretend that you want toleration.
I should tell you that more and more of my friends are getting wise to this little detail. And that is not all: they are getting more and more intolerant of militant homosexuals. Remember, the pendulum swings both ways. Get it? Both ways? Never mind.
Few "movements" end the way they began. The 2% of the pop that wants to force acceptance of homo-hood might just be surprised.
repsac3: I'm kinda live and let live. What I don't want is for people to use the law to force other people to do (or not do) the things they want to do. Folks should control their own behavior, not the behavior of other people. Atheists shouldn't pass laws to keep religious folks from attending church, and folks opposed to being gay shouldn't dictate whether or not folks who are gay should be able to civilly "marry."
1776stubborn: I can respect what you say, but this is what I have learned in my 62 years on Earth. I was in college when the great sexual revo kicked off. We were promised that nothing bad would come of the NEW sexual mores.
I had never seen a teen mom or public school inhouse baby sitter room. That was in 1969. The worst thing you could catch was the clap. Crosby, Stills and Young sang "Love the one you're with".
They were wrong. Why do you think you're not?
repsac3: It's naive to think that the mores of the 1960's were "new," or that just because teen mothers and their babies were more hidden from polite society in earlier years they didn't exist. Many societies have adjusted the definitions of "marriage" and "family," both legally and religiously. There was a time when marriages were arranged, and treated more like property agreements or ways to secure treaties between governments. Concubines were common. Times change, both for ill and for good.
1776stubborn: No, it is not "naive". I didn't say anything was "new", merely unknown to me and my world. I didn't live in a bubble either.
And we are talking about degrees, not absolutes.
I know of no homosexual nations or cultures that had "arranged" homosexual marriages.
Concubines were of cultures that treated women like cattle. Surely you aren't defending this?
repsac3: While I don't know the history of gay folks and marriage (and concede there may be no history), I don't find the lack of history a compelling reason to dictate the future, especially given some of the things that are in the history of marriage. And no, I'm not defending concubinage or arranged marriages... I'm defending the fact that things--including the definition of marriage--has and will continue to change as time went/goes on.
1776stubborn: And the notion that progress always goes to the left is specious and unfounded wishful thinking. What will you and the rest of society do if and when this dream of gay marriage/unions etc ends up producing a miserable and unhappy subculture? How will you get the toothpaste back in the tube?
Radical change is exciting, but it seldom ends happily. Live long enough and you will see. Life will teach you what you didn't learn in the student union.
repsac3: While I cannot see the future, I don't accept that "something terrible may happen" is a sufficient reason to keep gay folks from uniting under law. (Ditto "man-dog" marriage, polygamous marriage, or any of the other supposed slippery slopes.) Scientific discovery sometimes results in bad acts, too. Hell, you or I could step on a slug and slip on his guts and break your/my neck. But I'm not going to stop walking (or argue for a law against it) because it may turn out tragic for one of us.
1776stubborn: No, you can't see the future, but you can see the past and you can see the present. Traditional rules of societal behavior are not usually arbitrary and pointless. Most have be through the grind of human cultures and the Darwinian (if you will) notion of natural selection has decreed that homo behavior, while apeing hetero behavior has no survival value.
Thus the behavior is aberrant for reasons ordinary folks in the past and the present and hopefully the future would understand.
repsac3: Neither marriage or sex is limited to survival... Not among most humans, anyway... (There may have been a time when that was true, but even devout Catholics have sex for pleasure, these days... They use birth control, and everything... Not only that, I hear tell that science has discovered that some animals have sex just for fun, as well...) The times, they are a-changin'
1776stubborn: "Well, you or I could step on a slug and slip on his guts and break your/my neck. But I'm not going to stop walking (or argue for a law against it) because it may turn out tragic for one of us."
Anecdotal "evidence" is hardly dispositive and one cannot successfully measure the set by a subset.
Again, I must go. Netflix calls. Be well, but this topic is done. Stick a fork in it.
repsac3: I offered no anecdotal evidence. I argued that it is folly to make or support law based on "the terrible things that might happen, maybe," whether it's speculation about "the miserable and unhappy subculture" that might maybe be produced by marriage equality, or about the potential dangers of slug guts (or wet grass, or the Metropolitan bus system) to the pedestrian public. Both are ridiculous, as a reason to pass or maintain restrictive laws, anyway...
1776stubborn: "I don't find the lack of history a compelling reason to dictate the future,"
You should. Traditional societal norms "evolve" over time and EXPERIENCE. In other words, what works survives, what doesn't doesn't.
If nature and humankind, after tens of millenia, hasn't found the same sex phenom to be a successful model for procreation (the Ultimate Prime Directive), why should some San Fran types get to pout and shout and demand such a serious change in Western mores?
repsac3: If you really believed in this prime directive, the laws of man would not be necessary. Homosexuality would already be doomed. So why do you insist that there be laws against their doomed existence? Why not let them be united under law (which may actually help their inescapable fate come sooner)?
1776stubborn: I don't believe in "the laws of man." I believe in the laws of God.  Big diff.
Homosexuality IS already doomed.
I had many homosexual friends as a young man. Married and older, I have few friends period. LOL.....you will learn this.
I have no issue with one human loving another human. The form and practice has immediate and long range effects you seem blind too. It must be your youth.
Anyway, I left you a link on your youtube account. I have to go now.
Be well.
repsac3: I take no issue with the laws of God...except when His dictates are written into secular law that governs believer and non-believer alike. You absolutely should follow the laws of your God...but you should not expect that those of other faiths, or of no faith, do so as well...at least not in this country... (And the condescending "youth" thing is a non-starter...and more'n a little silly, besides...)

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1776stubborn: Don't be dense. Toleration is not acceptance. You want acceptance, but you pretend that you want toleration.
I should tell you that more and more of my friends are getting wise to this little detail. And that is not all: they are getting more and more intolerant of militant homosexuals. Remember, the pendulum swings both ways. Get it? Both ways? Never mind.
Few "movements" end the way they began. The 2% of the pop that wants to force acceptance of homo-hood might just be surprised.
repsac3: That said, I do think the church should marry folks, and the state should regulate civil unions--meaning all laws delete the word "marriage" and substitute "civil union." (The state can recognize religious marriages AS civil unions, but they should not dictate what is or isn't a religious marriage, just as the church should have no say over civil unions.) That'd go a long way to ending the semantic war over "marriage," and let wethepeople determine who is/isn't covered under fed/state/local law.
1776stubborn: marriage vs civil unions.
At first blush, one could easily agree with your approach, but as in the phony claims of gun control advocates who draw a line in the sand promising to never cross it and go for a total ban, we don't trust them and we don't trust the "civil unions" crowd.
incremental destruction of the family unit is what you REALLY desire.
repsac3: You misunderstand... There would be no "further" to go. If every law that currently uses the word "marriage" is amended to use "civil union" instead, God and one's church defines the sacrament of marriage for all (or their) believers, and the state defines the laws concerning unions for all citizens. (Sure, there may be some gay folks who will try to force churches to marry them, as well as some religious folks who want America to make civil law based on their holy text... Some people are nuts.)
1776stubborn: Actually, I find this offering of yours more compelling, however, as much as I wish to be fair...we are forgetting the main reason for "marriage" and that is children.
Semantics aside, I agree totally with Carolla re the mommy/daddy model vs the daddy/daddy or mommy/mommy models.
There is more to this then what a bunch of self-absorbed grownups want.
repsac3: I dispute both the assertion and (assuming the assertion were true) the haphazard response to it. Many people marry for reasons having nothing to do with children. Others intend to have children, but can't. If marriage--or the laws governing marriage--were about children they would (or could) so specify. For the most part, they don't. No one tests for the ability to make babies in the course of getting a marriage license...not even the church.
1776stubborn: "Many people marry for reasons having nothing to do with children. Others intend to have children, but can't."
Don't be obtuse. I am talking about what nature has decreed the optimal condition for the raising and care of human children.
You can dispute all you want. The facts are still the same: Nature (the Prime Directive) hasn't created a human strain that can self-reproduce or at least reproduce homosexually, as much as you wish it so.
No marriage is perfect. Carolla has your number.
repsac3: There is no marriage in nature, my friend. That is a human invention. Some animals do mate for life, but the number who do is tiny. Most mate at will with whoever is handy. And I'm fairly certain you wouldn't advocate that we humans follow in THOSE "natural" footsteps. And yes, there is some homosexuality and bisexuality among the animals, as well... Though you are correct that it doesn't increase their numbers, either.

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1776stubborn: Actually, I find this offering of yours more compelling, however, as much as I wish to be fair...we are forgetting the main reason for "marriage" and that is children.
Semantics aside, I agree totally with Carolla re the mommy/daddy model vs the daddy/daddy or mommy/mommy models.
There is more to this then what a bunch of self-absorbed grownups want.
repsac3: And if it were true... Why is divorce legal? Even if mom and dad ARE what's best for children (and it may be), what is second best? Third? Are children better off with single parents or with two gay parents? What about group homes or fostercare vs two gay parents? What is THE REST of the science say, and if the children of single parents score lower than children in gay homes, should we make single parenthood or divorce illegal? (I say no, just so we're clear.)
1776stubborn: "Why is divorce legal? Even if mom and dad ARE what's best for children (and it may be), what is second best? Third? Are children better off with single parents or with two gay parents? What about group homes or fostercare vs two gay parents?"
At one time divorce wasn't easily gotten. Rare was it in olden times. And it had it's uses. Not all hetero marriages are good. There. Happy?
Mom and Dad are what's best. The rest are by def what you do when you can't get the best.
repsac3: Even if you're correct that a biological mother and father in a successful marriage is what's best for raising children--and I suspect it may be--your response is, well, non-responsive. Children are conceived outside of wedlock. Marriages end due to divorce or death. Some children are orphaned. Now what? Not every child will grow up in your ideal "best" situation. What are the rest of the "best to worst" rankings, and at what rank should a family situation become illegal?
1776stubborn: "and if the children of single parents score lower than children in gay homes, should we make single parenthood or divorce illegal?"
I'm unsure what you are driving at. At the very least we should make single parenthood rare and divorce difficult. Children are the ones who pay for mistakes grown-ups make, but have no voice. Stability is key for kids.
Sometimes parents should shut up, suck it up and soldier on.
FOR THE KIDS. Does that make it easier to swallow? You disagree?
repsac3: Yes, I disagree. I think some people give up on their marriages far too easily...but others should get out a lot sooner than they do... No one should put up with physical abuse more'n once (or twice, at most), kids or no kids. Sure, work through infidelity a time or two or three...but once it's a pattern, it does the children very little good to have that as a parental model of behavior... Yes, I disagree...sometimes, anyway... (I wouldn't make "soldiering on" the law, for certain.)
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Added 3/26/13: The internet rantings of my crazy stalker, Dishonest Donald Douglas, after having read (or at least selectively quoting from) this post: American Power: Anti-Marriage Extremist Walter James Casper III and the Unitarian Push for Polyamorous Sexual Licentiousness Read his ravings, and decide for yourself whether he accurately portrays my position. (I may reply, I may not... As someone once said about Dr. Douglas and his blog, "his rantings are self-refuting.")

Monday, March 11, 2013

In Reply: "However wrong some folks might've thought Ms. Zerlina's opinion was, laying into a black woman by saying she was "cry[ing] like a freakin' little black baby whose mom's too busy with a crack pipe to pay her any mind." is far more likely to cause people to defend her rather than to disagree with her."

In reply to American Nihilist: And Then I Met a Man Who Had No Feet, discussing this American Power post.
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Whenever I read blatently bigoted or offensive posts like his I wonder whether the people who write and post them realize that the only people applauding are other bigoted offensive people. Everyone else is disgusted.

And even if these people really believe what they're saying, and think they're speaking "hard truth"--and sadly, I suspect that some of 'em really do--I cannot believe that they don't realize how badly they're alienating themselves from everyone who isn't an offensive bigot...or alternatively, that they just don't care.

I mean, I guess we on the left should be happy... This is no way to get normal, decent people to join the conservative movement, or even the Republican party. However wrong some folks might've thought Ms. Zerlina's opinion was, laying into a black woman by saying she was "cry[ing] like a freakin' little black baby whose mom's too busy with a crack pipe to pay her any mind." is far more likely to cause people to defend her rather than to disagree with her. To the extent people outside of the bigoted Right read posts like these, it's probably a small win for the Left, but speaking for myself, I'd rather not win at the expense of the individuals and groups these bigots verbally beat up on...
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Posted March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Links:
American Nihilist: And Then I Met a Man Who Had No Feet

American Power: @ZerlinaMaxwell Should Never Be Threatened for Making Stupid Comments, But That's No Excuse for Stupidity (Read the comments. Wow.)

Saturday, March 09, 2013

Expanding on Rand Paul: The Repudiation of the Unitary Executive and the Return of Congressional Oversight

In reply to: On Drones, It’s Paul vs. the Polls - Commentary Magazine, including the comment of Empress_Trudy.
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Rand Paul's spoken point was a little silly; chances are slim any American president is going to order a drone strike on fellow Americans who disagree with his party's positions or US government policy. But I agree that the administration should've more clearly said so. (I suspect that they couldn't believe anyone aside the conspiracy nut fringes would think it possible...)

But I took his filibuster more broadly as a repudiation of the unitary executive theory and as a reassertion of Congress' place in the "checks and balance" between the branches of government. Drones are (or should be) just another tool in the defense arsenal, and I suspect few see them as more evil than other weapons. The problem is the lack of Congressional oversight and explicitly defined rules about their use. No President should be able to make a kill list--of anyone, no matter how objectively evil--and wipe people off the face of the Earth without oversight and input from the other branches of government.

Every President needs to answer to Congress, the judiciary, and the American people. There is no acting on one's own. There need to be clear rules, and oversight to make sure that the President and those who carry out the drone missions are abiding by them, just like with any other military mission (which is why they should be done by the military, rather than the CIA.)

But then, I'm a liberal, so what do I know...
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I submitted this comment on Friday, 3/8/13, at about 5:00 PM. It apparently did not make it through moderation (which is a shame, because I think Commentary sometimes makes more sense than other Republican/conservative outlets, and often with less ad hominem attack, besides (even in the comments.) That the comment above was too... well ...anything for them to publish strikes me as awful curious, especially since I said very little that hasn't also been said by either a Commentary author or commenter. (The only thing that no one else has said is "I'm a liberal." It'd be pretty pathetic if that was the reason they didn't post my comment...)
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Not the only one thinking this:
More oversight and disclosure on drones - The Washington Post
Obama faces turning point on administration drone policy - The Hill's DEFCON Hill
What Rand Paul and Ted Cruz Exposed About the Drone Strikes
And more, via memeorandum

Everything you need to know about the drone debate, in one FAQ

And finally, someone also brought up the point that Rand Paul and the Republicans and conservatives cheering for him give Obama room to satisfy those further to the left who've had concerns about the drone issue for a long time, without looking like he's catering to them. It's the same principle that says it had to be a Republican meeting and striking deals with China in the early 1970's as Nixon did. A Democrat would never've gotten away with it back here in the US. Something to consider, anyway...

Friday, January 11, 2013

In Reply: Provoking Public Fear No Way to Sell Responsible Gun Ownership (Men armed with rifles walk through Portland to 'educate' )

In reply to Men armed with rifles walk through Portland to 'educate' - KPTV - FOX 12
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Probably be a good idea to proactively identify their intent, somehow (A t-shirt or a sign, perhaps?).

Just strolling through the streets--and with the camo headscarf, rightly or wrongly seen as the "hoodie" of the mass casualty gunman, besides--was probably a little short-sighted...though probably also intentional. (While they may just be idiots, I suspect that they intended to provoke both the public fear and the police presence as a way of furthering their cause.)

Having a right to do a thing doesn't always make it the right (or smart) thing to do.
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There are a whole lotta good comments appended to the post, but two stood out for me (of the ones I read, anyway. There were over 400...):

Ebony Leopard commented:
"The greatest threat to gun owner's rights are other gun owners."

And "EMGK4O" said:
I am pro-gun and a hunter. Open-carry through a Portland neighborhood with AR-15s is ignorant, if not stupid. This is counter-productive to those of us who use guns responsibly. Of course, the last thing we need are laws to keep this from happening. If I was there, I would also have approached these two and gave them an educated reason why they are being irresponsible.

Also - for those of you who dislike guns, if the day ever comes you or your family needs defended with force, I will put my life on the line and use the tools I have to defend my countrymen. Until that day, you won't know who I am or what I would do to help your family - regardless of where you stand on gun control. If that day ever comes, you will be thankful for responsible gun owners and the laws which give us the ability to defend our freedom. These two are hooligans who don't represent responsible gun owners.

Like the fools threatening to kill any law enforcement or government agent who comes anywhere near their guns--I'm sure you've all seen (or at least heard about) this unhinged fellow, for instance:


--these two idiots aren't helping to convince the American public that gun owners are responsible and trustworthy, and therefore further legal restrictions and safeguards are unnecessary.

Posted 1/11/13, 9:00PM (via ipad, initially... Reformatted and otherwise updated for clarity: 1/12, 7:00 AM)

Thursday, January 10, 2013

In Reply: The Value of an American Flag: More than the sum of it's parts

In reply to Midlands teacher accused of stomping on American flag in class - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina
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I do understand the likely intended message of the act, which is "the map is not the territory," and "symbols REPRESENT the things they symbolize, but only because people choose and agree that they do," but this was a very thoughtless and disrespectful way to try to teach it.

In the high school class I took, the teacher ripped up a map of our area live in class (noting that no fissures appeared in the ground outside as he did so), but showed us pictures or newspaper accounts of people committing more extreme acts like flag burning and desecration (the US flag was shown being destroyed somehow, but he was careful to include the flags of at least 10 countries) and book burning.

My teacher's take was that American flags do start out as just cloth, but we Americans put our hopes, dreams, and ideals into them like putting on a shirt, so it becomes the difference between taking a t-shirt out of your closet and setting it on fire, vs putting gasoline and a match to the one you're wearing.


While it's true that symbols are not literally the things they symbolize, that doesn't mean that they're worth no more than the sum of their parts, either. If you think about it, the cloth is probably the least valuable thing about our American flag. It's a shame this guy forgot that half of the lesson.
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Posted Thursday, January 10, 2013, 12:17 PM


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More:
Teacher suspended for stomping on American flag during lesson about symbolism - EAGnews.org :: Education Research, Reporting, Analysis and Commentary

Language in Thought and Action - Symbols

Language in Thought and Action: Fifth Edition: S.I. Hayakawa, Alan R. Hayakawa, Robert MacNeil: 9780156482400: Amazon.com: Books

Added: After posting, I pulled out and started rereading Hayakawa's chapter on symbols. This passage seems relevant:
"In all civilized societies (and probably in many primitive ones as well) the symbols of piety, of civic virtue or of patriotism are often prized above actual piety, civic virtue or patriotism. In one way or another, we are all like the student who cheats on his exams in order to make Phi Beta Kappa: it is so much more important to have the symbol than the things it stands for."
I'm still reading the chapter, so maybe I'll be back with another quote or two...

(This was the textbook for the high school class I talked about in the comment, and I credit this book and that class and teacher with much of the intellectual content and philosophical bent of my blogging today...)

X-Post: An Open Post To Donald Kent Douglas - @ampowerblog

Look... I understand you have some bug up your ass about me, but let's face facts...

Almost everything you're whining about in your recent posts (and indeed in many of your posts about me over the last several years) took place forever ago in online blog years:

* The last time I even tried to comment at your American Power blog was late January or early February, 2012.

* The last time you posted a new expose about someone contacting Long Beach City College was Thursday, October 13, 2011

* The incident where the one-time American Nihilist author talked about doing so was posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009, and that guy hasn't written anything at American Nihilist (or even thought about you for more than five seconds, I'll wager) since August of that same year.

* Even the damned Occupy tweet you're so fond of talking about was posted on November 23, 2011.

The actual life of the average blog post can't be much more than six months (but let's give it a year)...
A tweet prolly isn't fresh for more than a month or two, (but let's give it six).

After that, Don, it's time to give 'em up and just let go...

If you feel the need to go after me over current shit (or even semi-current shit), I understand. But really... Any attack on a blog post or tweet that's over a year old--and especially ones for which you're offering not a shred of new information--is just D.O.A., and no one --NO ONE-- cares...

I'm telling you Donald, because I'm guessing that your online friends don't want to hurt your feelings, whereas I obviously do not have any reservations about doing so...but trust me when I say, pretty much the whole of the fucking internet will be grateful if and when you finally, at long last learn when to say when...and with very few exceptions, any topic that's a year or more old is already way the hell long past when.

At least give it some thought. Maybe ask a few of those "blog allies" you wrote about in your most recent attack post (or at least read their blogs and notice that in this regard, you're out there on yer own... Whatever else they do, the rest of the bloggers in your little clique are not refighting year old feuds... pretty much ever.)

'Nuff said, Fred. Do as thou wilt. I'll be out here either way...
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An American Nihilist X-post

Wednesday, January 09, 2013

X-Post: Dishonest Donald Kent Douglas - Obsessed Wingnut Blogger Still Obsessed

In reply to American Power: Ban, Block and Report Walter James Casper III in 2013

Some excerpts, and my replies:

As concerns PUBLIC COMMENTING SYSTEMS:
"Since then, Walter James Casper III has continued to stalk this blog, claiming "trolling rights" to comment here whenever he pleases. Of course, no one has a "right" to comment on someone else's blog. The right to freedom of speech guarantees freedom from discrimination by government."
The only one talking about rights (in the legal sense) or freedom of speech (in the government sense--though I suspect that most folks think "first amendment" for government censorship or discrimination, but view "free speech" more broadly to include other instances where one person or group tries to keep another from speaking out. YMMV...) in this situation is Dishonest Don. What I said was, as long as he posted about me on his blog, I would not agree not to refrain from commenting on those posts just because he demanded I do so, which sent him into a spittle-flecked, semi-litrate rant just about every time I said it. (Lost to ol' Dishonest Don was the fact that while I said it, I didn't actually do it. I even let him in on the game at least once, but he still came out ranting like some drug-addled stuffed-full-of-himself-to-bursting Charlie Sheen, regardless.) (There's links for this, somewhere... I'll post 'em when I find 'em.)

And keep in mind, almost all of this whining Donald Douglas is doing is about things that happened long, long ago (in blog-time, anyway). I'm almost certain that the last comment I tried to submit to an American Power blog post was in late January or early February, 2012. The fact that he's still this worked up about it--and still lashing out at me on his blog and on Twitter, largely unprovoked--should tell you all you need to know about the kind of guy Dishonest Donald Douglas chooses to be.

"In denying his stalking and harassment --- criminal activity of which I have reported to the police" (and for which they've probably laughed at him profusely, and definitely done absolutely nothing about, because no matter how much Donald Douglas wishes it were otherwise, unwanted blog comments are just not covered by criminal statutes - wjc) "--- Repsac3 claims that he was only "submitting comments to an area open to public comment, in rebuttal of posts attacking me by name." See that? He was only harassing this blog on the justification that the commenting system here is an area "open for public comment." The problem, of course, is that there's no such thing as a "public" blog open to "public comments.""
Dishonest Don keeps using that word "harassment," but shows no evidence that he has clue what the word means.
"Put aside the obvious fact that Blogger blogs are owned by Google and not the U.S. or any state government (and hence privately owned), the individual proprietor of a blog, even a Blogger blog, retains all the rights to allow any and all comments at the site."
I've acknowledged the fact that a blog owner may accept or reject any and all comments at the site repeatedly, including the very first time I said Dishonest Don's "banning" was a load of horse shit:
"As long as Donald Douglas is posting a public blog that accepts comments, I'm going to continue to comment on what he posts, whenever and wherever I choose. He's welcome to delete anything and everything I contribute to his blog if he so chooses--it is his blog, after all--but that won't stop me from making the contribution in the first place, and pointing out every cowardly deletion he makes (on my blog, I mean), as well."
I don't think I could've been more clear. Donald's "proprietor of the blog" argument is a non-responsive strawman smokescreen.

As Dishonest Donald probably understands full well (no matter how hard he tries to convince his readers and other gullible fools otherwise) whether or not what one posts is a public blog (or has a comment section open to the public) is not about "rights" or "ownership," but about whether or not the blog appears in public or the comment section allows the internet hoi-polloi to post public comments. And to put it plainly, Donald's blog is public, and has always had a comment section open to the public...and he well knows it.

(As to his other point, it's worse than that... As the owners, Google ultimately decides what can and cannot appear on a blog proprietor's blog...and if a given proprietor doesn't like Google's choices, s/he can go find another blog platform. The proprietor may have rights, but it's Google that's in control.)
"And this is after being repeatedly warned to cease and desist, the legal threshold over which Repsac3's actions became criminal."
Dishonest Donald Douglas is making that up. There is no law protecting Donald from blog comments that he doesn't want, no matter how often or BOLDLY IN CAPS he types "stop."

(That's not entirely true... If someone were actually harassing Dr. Douglas--submitting tens or hundreds of comments every day, or submitting comments threatening to injure or kill him or those he loves--I'm sure that Google and the law would be all-too-happy to make that behavior cease and desist and to punish the person(s) responsible for it, as well--and probably without Don's ever having to ask the person to stop a single time, besides.)

What Donald is talking about here are single on-topic comments (generally links to a reply post at American Nihilist) offered to those blog posts where he wrote about me, generally unprovoked. (And as often as not, prolly, I didn't actually bother making the comment. As I said above, just saying that I might comment was enough...) I think I figured out once that it came to about 30-35 comments over a two year period. And like I also said above...that period ended almost a year ago, which makes one wonder why Dishonest Don is STILL so obsessed about it...
By developing a psychotic theory of "public commenting," radical leftist harassers delude themselves that they have a "right" to torment their targets. A blog, of course, is nothing like, say, a public park. Anyone can use the park, regardless of whether they contributed to the provision of that park, a public good, through tax contributions or user fees to the government agency responsible for providing that service. In other words, there are distinct realms of consumption of good and services. The oceans are common pool resources that no single nation-state owns. The public good problem is the incentive for one state to use more resources than it would be allowed under existing norms, regimes, or legal treaties. Even in this case, an otherwise common resource is nevertheless restricted in its use by state actors, otherwise the common resources --- say fisheries --- would be depleted. In sum, Walter James Casper III has invented a system of "public commenting" that only exists in the dark recesses of his addled and hateful mind. There is no right to comment on someone else's blog, no matter the kind of commenting system the blog uses.
Again, Dishonest Donald Douglas is arguing against a strawman he built all by himself. I never said I had a legal (or even ethical) right to have my comments appear on his blog. Indeed, I fully expected that Donald would refuse to allow them to appear, showing him to be a coward afraid to be confronted at his own blog. That's why I generally simultaneously posted the comments I submitted to American Power on my own blog, showing that they contained no threats or off-topic nonsense, and very little bad language or other content that would justify their not being allowed through moderation.

(And yes, I fully understand that a blogger can refuse to allow specific comments or commenters for any reason s/he wishes, right down to bias against anyone whose name begins with their least favorite letter of the alphabet...but we who regularly read, write, or comment on blogs judge bloggers in part based on how they treat their commenters, and especially how they handle those who disagree with them... While a blog owner has every right to moderate away all comments written by folks whose online names begin with "R," it will affect how crazy or arbitrary the blog reading public thinks that blog owner is...and whether their online time might be better spent reading a blog with an owner more sane...)

If Dishonest Donald was really "tormented" by my posting a single on-topic comment in rebuttal to somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3's of the blog posts he wrote talking about me over a two year period, I think the problem lies with him, not me. The fact that not one of the political, law enforcement, or legal individuals or offices he's contacted about me has ever so much as sent me a text on his behalf speaks to how serious his allegations of criminality against me actually are. (I had one lawyer tell me that his accusations of criminality are the only actionable offenses he sees between us, and that he wants to represent me. Anecdotal and worth every cent you paid to read it and not one penny more, but true, nevertheless. Unlimited quantity of salt grains available on request.)

A better question might be why Dishonest Donald Douglas was and seemingly still remains compelled to write all these posts--many of them unprovoked--where he mentions me by name in the first place. I'm not saying he CAN'T write them...but I AM saying it's mighty odd behavior for a guy claiming he has been stalked and harassed by me, and who claims to have been tormented by the blog comments that I used to submit in reply to some of those posts. Something to really consider, that...

And one more time, for the record... I submitted my last comment to American Power in late January or early February, 2012, which was a long time before Donald ever changed to the Disqus commenting system--three to six months before, if I'm not mistaken) Not only do I not "rue the day" Dishonest Don made that switch, I'm not entirely sure he has even successfully banned me via the "fabulous Disqus black-listing system" at all, seeing as how I never tried to submit a comment since he made the change. (I'm also pretty sure that I actually suggested he make the change to a commenting system that has a mechanism for banning, somewhere along the line...though damned if I can find and cite where I did so, now...) ((I'll plug the cite in here, if ever I come across when/where I said it...and actually remember where the empty "socket" is by then...))

Yeah... Dishonest Donald Douglas' attempt to criminalize blog comments is still a big ol' bust, just like it has been every single time since first he ever tried to sell folks on this big bad bag of nothin'. While it may be rude, there is no law or term of service against submitting a reasonable number of on-topic comments to a blog post, even if the author or blog owner would rather that you didn't. That's why Disquis and others have such "fabulous black-listing systems."

As regards NO SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS:
"Repsac3, at his Twitter profile, claims he's against 'sweeping generalizations.'"
I do...and I am... But (in yet another example of my having no trouble admitting when I'm wrong, much to the chagrin of Dishonest Donald Douglas), I just went over and changed my profile. I've been using the wrong term for what I intended to argue against. What I meant to say was I'm against "hasty generalizations," and especially against hasty generalizations backed with intentionally "cherry-picked" evidence.

A sweeping generalization goes from whole to part, suggesting that because a thing in generally true, it's true for every individual. For example:

Republicans supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...
...and therefore, Ron Paul (a Republican) supported those wars.

A hasty generalization--the fallacy Dishonest Donald so often commits--does the opposite, going from the individual to the whole. Donald cherry-picks the ten or twenty communists he finds at a protest attended by fifteen hundred people, and says or implies that everyone who attends the protest or supports the cause is therefore a communist.

But don't take my word for it... Let's use Donald's own examples:
"...when union goons are repeatedly caught out as violent thugs..."
Number of "violent thugs" in this example: 3
Number of union folks attending the protest: hundreds of union-tied protesters... Maybe even thousands of people.
"...and when the union leadership advocates violence..."
Two links (though Dishonest Don tries to make it look like three) about one guy, Richard Trumka, and one thing he said to the press about not inflaming an already bad situation by sending in scab workers to cross a mineworker picket line in 1993. (The company subsequently did try to hire scabs, violence broke out, and one man was murdered.)

"To be clear, generalizations are a form of argument to explain general tendencies. To say that unions are violent and thuggish is a generalization that is repeatedly demonstrated as true. The examples of individual union members who do not engage in violence or thuggery don't disprove the generalization."
A generalization only explains "general tendencies" if one can show that a significant number of the whole (over half, at the very barest of minimums) actually exhibits those "general tendencies." It's not the "individual union members who do not engage in violence or thuggery" that disproves the generalization, but that MOST union members do not engage in the violence or thuggery that does. Besides which, it isn't me using individual acts by individual actors to generalize about the whole...It's Dr. Douglas, so perhaps he ought to direct his argument back toward himself. What I'm saying--and what Donald apparently understands himself, at least when he thinks it works to his advantage--is that "the examples of individual union members actors who engage in violence or thuggery a given behavior don't prove any generalization about the larger group to which they belong." When there are hundreds or thousands of union members attending a given protest and even 10% of them commit some act of violence or vandalism while the rest do not, the threshold of Dishonest Don's "general tendencies" theory simply isn't met and neither hunts nor holds water. To say otherwise is to engage in a hasty generalization using intentionally cherry-picked evidence.

The rest of Dishonest Donald's examples--"seat belts save lives," "progressives favor high taxes," "Occupy Wall Street," "..."--all follow that same pattern of suggesting the behavior of a statistically insignificant number individuals "speaks to" or "proves" some generality about the whole group of those individuals. (In some cases, like with seat belts, the generality itself is born out by the numbers, but Donald throws in an argument that no one's making about individual deaths even with seat belt use. Again, it isn't the individual examples that count; it's how many of them there are relative to the whole. If four people out of a hundred die while wearing a seat belt, it's an anomaly; if seventy-five people do, it's probably safe to make a generalization about the deadliness of seat belt use.)

As concerns "LIBERAL-DEFENDER NOT LIBERTY-DEFENDER":
"Walter James Casper III has used his hate-blog American Nihilist to publish my workplace information with exhortations for progressives to contact my college administration, with the obvious intent to get me fired for my conservative advocacy and allegedly politically incorrect statements."
Quite the mouthful, but pretty much all untrue.

I have never published Dishonest Donald Douglas' workplace information.

Not only have I never made any exhortations for anyone to contact Dishonest Donald Douglas's college administration, I have repeatedly and consistently spoken out against every single person who ever has made exhortations to do so, who actually has done so, or who has ever talked about contacting any college administration about any professor's online behavior--including those times when Donald Douglas threatened to do so (and according to some accounts, likely actually did so) and when he posted approvingly about a mob of rightwing bloggers who contacted a school and succeeded in getting a liberal professor fired for he online partisan behavior..

According to those who did threaten to or actually did contact Dishonest Donald's college superiors, just about all of them claim to've done so in an effort to get him to stop harassing them online, which is awful ironic, in light of Donald's many protestations about me. Make of that what you will... None of them referenced his conservative advocacy or political incorrectness.
"But Repsac3 offered his co-bloggers front-page posting time to launch ideological attacks on my livelihood."
No... I never once said anything about ideological attacks on anyone's livelihood. Dishonest Donald is lying.
"The fact is that Repsac3 always had --- and still has --- editorial control over the contents published at his blog. If he didn't, then the post targeting me would still be available at the blog. (It has been edited by the blog administrator, Repsac3, to remove my contact information, as it should have been from the start, but wasn't.) Of course, it should have never been published in the first place, under any circumstances, and the "personal responsibility" for the post rests not with the author but with the person who provided the pixels at the front of the hate-blog, Walter James Casper, the blog publisher of American Nihilist."
I can appreciate that Donald Douglas has some very nanny state ideas about personal responsibility and how one should run a group blog, but these are things that reasonable people can and do disagree about.

To me, the idea that anyone is responsible for the words and ideas expressed in a blog post or comment aside the author who wrote and posted them is absolutely crazy. To my way of thinking, each person is wholly responsible for what they themselves say, and for deciding whether and when to amend or retract their own words.

Maybe there are group blogs where the authors discuss their posts ahead of time and the blog owner approves every post is for publication before the fact...but I've never heard of a single one.

Here at American Nihilist, (and at most group blogs, I'm willing to bet) every author is his own editor and publisher. And here at American Nihilist, every author takes personal responsibility for their own posts and comments, including deciding whether and when to admit that something they wrote crossed an ethical line.

To me, personal responsibility means giving the author of an offensive post the space and freedom to defend what he's written or apologize and edit or delete his own post. Donald seems to believe personal responsibility involves having some authoritarian daddy figure step in and censor the post for that author.

Each person reading this can decide for themselves which version of personal responsibility they ascribe to and judge Donald Douglas and I accordingly. If anyone wants to take me to task for my beliefs or behavior in this regard, please avail yourself of the comment section below. No literate comment will go unanswered...

Dishonest Donald is free to run his blog(s) any way he chooses, but he is not free to dictate how other bloggers must run theirs.
"No amount of dodging can possibly escape the truth, which is why Repsac3 has been universally condemned for his intimidation campaigns among conservative bloggers and free speech advocates."
Yeah, not so much... Not so much at all...
"After Carl S___ and SEK launched their vicious libel campaigns at my workplace, Repsac3 praised those attempts to get me fired, remarking that such attacks worked in having me no longer blogging about those pricks."
Again, Dishonest Donald Douglas is stretching the truth.

Here's what I actually said:
"The reason most of the folks who contacted LBCC about Donald gave for doing so, was to stop him from attacking them via trolling comments on their blogs and attack posts on his own. That certainly doesn't justify their solution--though ironically, it worked, in most cases; Other than repeatedly going back to the endless well of legitimate outrage and less legitimate victimhood these incidents seem to provide for him, Donald barely mentions any of the people who contacted LBCC, anymore--but it does shed a little more light on the situation... If you explore some of the posts and comments they made about these incidents, a few of 'em sounded pretty desperate to get Dr. Douglas to back the hell off."
And if that's not enough, here's what I said when Dishonest Donald first tried to spin my words about his focus on the guy who didn't (and said in no uncertain terms that they shouldn't have), rather than all the guys who did:
"What I said was, Donald barely mentions the folks who contacted LBCC anymore... And correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what Donald just said, too... I don't know his reason... Maybe it's because they took action against him, or maybe it's just because they're "no longer worth Don's time." But whatever the reason, aside these ridiculous whiny, weepy "I'm such a victim" diatribes, Donald barely mentions the folks who actually contacted LBCC, anymore... For whatever reason, Donald would rather lash out at me over this whole "workplace intimidation" thing, even though I never contacted anyone... I leave it to others to deduce why..."
I fail to see how I could've been more clear.
"Further, as the left's campaigns of lawfare and workplace intimidation have become widespread, Repsac3 has repeatedly defended the hate and laughed off attacks on conservatives has "wingnut" whining."
One only has to read the posts and comments I've written discussing "Team Kimberlin" to see how far off the mark Dishonest Donald is as regards lawfare. My posts about workplace harassment--including those situations involving Donald, himself--show him to be lying there, as well. As far as "wingnut whining," I could only find one tweet, which had to do with Michelle Malkintent and the supposedly liberal media... What Dishonest Donald was referring to is anybody's guess...
"So, for all of my readers and blog allies, remember that this is a dangerous ideological opponent and political enemy who is working to do harm to those with whom he disagrees. Like Zilla of the Resistance has advised, the best remedy is to ban these assholes, block them from your comments sections and block and report them on Twitter for stalking and intimidation."
Yeah... I don't even know what to say to that, except to suggest that, rather than taking Dishonest Donald Douglas' (or anyone's) characterization of another person as Gospel, folks ought to read what that person has to say and see how s/he behaves toward others firsthand, and then judge for themselves.

Please do...
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Links:
American Power: Ban, Block and Report Walter James Casper III in 2013

Oh noes!!! "Repsac3 Banned from American Power"

Donald Douglas just can't let me go

Donald Douglas Abuses His Google

“Shoot, I’m not even always right, LOL!” - Lawyers, Guns & Money

American Power: Jeff Goldstein Knows a Thing or Two About Low-Life Leftist Scum
Donald Douglas - An Ethical "Push-me, Pull-you"

What'd I Say?: In Reply: "I never thought that person did it because of their political leanings, I think they did it because they were cowardly bullies." (Popehat, Team Kimberlin, Donald Douglas)

Saberpoint: Strange Things Are Happening....Donald Douglas Annoyed by Leftwing Blogger

Online Disagreements and The Offline World We Live In...

Dishonesty and Ad Hom: Is this all Donald Douglas Has?

What'd I Say?: Search results for Kimberlin

Twitter: "Whiny Wingnut Victim"
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Dishonest Donald Douglas Cries "Victimhood!!!" (and changes the definitions of common words to "prove it.")

BTDT FAQ Files - Workplace Harassment

Obsessed much, Dr. Douglas?
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If it was one of Dr. Donald Douglas’ many specious accusations and allegations about W. James Casper (repsac3) that brought you to this site, either directly--or far more likely, via your own due diligence (Dr. Douglas seldom actually provides links or citations, himself--please go back to the post, comment or tweet you read, and see whether Donald 1) paraphrased and characterized whatever it is he is claiming Mr Casper said or did, or 2) provided quotes, citations and links to Mr Casper’s actually saying or doing the thing Dr Douglas is alleging.

And then really think about why Donald Douglas (almost certainly) didn’t do the latter, and what that omission tells you about how seriously anyone should take his accusation(s)...

It'd be one thing if the primary source material of Dr. Douglas' complaint was no longer available to read and view in full context, verbatim, in whatever place he originally found it. But I know of no instance where that is the case. Donald Douglas is intentionally keeping his readers from the primary sources of his many complaints, and it's incumbent on every honest reader to take that fact into account, and to judge both the complaint and the complainer accordingly...

(Try it yourself. Decide on a page and link number--say the fifth link from the bottom on the ninth page of the Google search link above (pick your own page and link location, obviously)--and see for yourself whether Dr. Douglas backs his accusations against Mr Casper with anything concrete (quotes, links to or screencaps of exactly where he said or did whatever Donald is accusing him of), or whether it’s all paraphrase and characterization. While there may be exceptions, in the vast majority of cases there will be no quotes, no links, and no screencaps. There will just be Dr. Douglas telling you what he claims Mr Casper said and meant--as well as telling you exactly how you should feel about it--rather than showing you the supposed offense firsthand, and letting you judge it for yourself.)

While folks like Donald and liars like him want to hide what those they disagree with have to say by moderating their comment sections for content and limiting the number of verbatim quotes, citations, and links they use when blogging, I want nothing more than to give folks every opportunity to read exactly what they have to say, in all of it's contextual glory, and thus will quote and link to their exact words as often as I can...

Please read what Donald Douglas has to say about me and about the world in general. Weigh his arguments (as well as the arguments of those who disagree with him, of course), judge as fairly as your conscience allows, and come to your own conclusions.

I ask for nothing more.

And I ask for nothing less.
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Oh yeah... The tweets...

The call for helper-trolls (which seemingly didn't get a whole lotta response):

...and the cliquey mid-teen mean-girl attack (which oddly, did... Go figure.):

Gotta love this crazy fuck... Yeesh!
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Added:


Oh lookie... Another wingnut "blogger ally" using "he must be a faggot" as an attack against someone they disagree with politically... Could these assholes BE any more predictable? (or homophobic?)
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An American Nihilist X-post

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