In Reply: Fairness and respect for ideas other than your own

In reply to: Elizabeth Edwards Dies | Politics | Christianity Today.
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I believe I've made it pretty clear what I think about the timing, tone, and purpose of the Donald Douglas post that was cited in this Christianity Today article. But the folks here--original author and commenters alike--have been pretty fair, both to those with whom they agreed, and those with whom they have not. Had the author not included that controversial cite from Mr Douglas, it would've been a different piece, with a different set of reactions. (In saying that, I'm in no way suggesting that the author shouldn't've included Douglas cite; Once Donald Douglas put his comments out there for people to read and consider, they became a topic worthy of discussion, no matter what one thought of what he said, or when, or why.)

While I was concerned with the fairness of the CT blog during the period when comments expressing a particular set of viewpoints disappeared from the thread--I am no fan of moderation for ideological content (Those who've visited my blog quickly get a sense of how opposed to that kinda moderation I actually am.)--those concerns proved unfounded when the comments were reinstated and allowed to take their place in this marketplace of ideas about the Christian faith today.

I hope the conversation continues, both about the specifics of Elizabeth Edwards' final public statement and the controversy of the Douglas reaction, and about the nature of faith in times of sickness and grief, in general.
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Posted at Christianity Today on 12/11/10, approx 12:30 PM (There's no permalinks or timestamp on CT commentary.)

In Reply: Elizabeth Edwards: "perhaps praying for Mrs. Edwards, rather than coming down on her for having imperfect faith,..."

In reply to Elizabeth Edwards Dies | Politics | Christianity Today, and specifically a commenter named Dan, who said:

Read the posts. No one has passed judgment on the poor woman for being unorthodox in her belief. Expressed sorrow, perhaps, but no one has said anything judgmental about her. And should someone speak ill of her, shame on them. w.shuster's post gives more info about what she believed, but the details of her beliefs are still unclear to me, nor does it really matter now anyway. What is important is that God is loving, merciful, compassionate, and just. He will do what's right.:

My reply:

@Dan

"No one has passed judgment on the poor woman for being unorthodox in her belief. Expressed sorrow, perhaps, but no one has said anything judgmental about her."

I seem to recall saying somewhere that in fact, no one posting/commenting at this site HAD passed judgement on her, but that I believe in saying "Being anti-religion is cool, so Edwards' non-theological theology gets props from the neo-communists. Still, at her death bed and giving what most folks are calling a final goodbye, Elizabeth Edwards couldn't find it somewhere down deep to ask for His blessings as she prepares for the hereafter? I guess that nihilism I've been discussing reaches up higher into the hard-left precincts than I thought." [Cite] as well as "They hate the truth of Elizabeth Edwards' rejection of God, her nihilism in the face of the awesome unknown." [Cite] (and there's more, too), Donald Douglas, cited in the original post, WAS passing judgement on Mrs. Edwards (not to mention, misrepresenting her religious beliefs.) If you check my first comment, that's all I've been saying, all along... If anything, I expect that many reading and commenting here agree that perhaps praying for Mrs. Edwards and her soul, rather than coming down on her for having imperfect faith, would've been the way to go, both before and after her death.
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Judging by the "Christianity Today has held your post for moderation" pop-up I saw after submitting this (something I'd not seen before, there), I have a feeling I'm going to be prescreened for content over there at CT from here on out, and that this comment (or perhaps any of my comments) will not see the light of day, there... What is it they so fear? Questions?!?

UPDATE, 12/9/10, 8:30 AM: I was mistaken. Sometime late last night, all the comments that'd been held or disappeared from the Christianity Today post (mine, and everyone else's) reappeared, and are still there as of this morning. Should that change again, I'll be back, but I expect that a moderator there was either new, or a little overzealous in protecting the Christian (or more likely, the Christianity Today) brand, and that the situation has been fixed for good. (That's what I hope pray, anyway...)

In reply: Elizabeth Edwards: "How about we just let God sort it all out instead of judging Mrs Edwards or her imperfect faith?"

In reply to: Elizabeth Edwards Dies | Politics | Christianity Today, after someone at Christianity Today deleted the second part of my earlier comment there, presumably because it did not tow the line they sought to project.
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Second RM's comment. (which by the time I'd posted my comment, had also been deleted. I wish I'd thought to copy it...)

How can it be that it is acceptable to question the faith of a dying woman at this blog, but not acceptable to discuss what the Bible and the church says about questioning the faith of others, or the propriety of hitting a dying/newly deceased woman--and indirectly, her family--within 24 hours of her death?

It is my belief, understanding--and as far as I can find, anyway, factually the case--that most Christians, in person and on the web, and including most Christians right here at this blog, would not and did not berate Mrs Edwards or suggest that she was "anti-religion" or a "nihilist" before or after her death, but instead prayed that Mrs Edwards sought and found redemption.

"How about you just let God sort it all out instead of judging others here or trying to pick a theological fight - which you would lose."

Dan, there is not a doubt in my mind I would lose a theological fight... I believe I conceded that point at the outset, (though perhaps it was in the part of my comment that was moderated away.)

But by that way of thinking, how about we just let God sort it all out instead of judging Mrs Edwards or her imperfect faith? (Essentially, that's my point. If it is acceptable for folks to judge Mrs Edwards, why is it not acceptable for folks to pass judgement on the timing and propriety of those who would judge her, including--and at this site, especially--by discussing what the Bible and the church teaches, in this regard?
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Predictably, I suppose, this comment was deleted from Christianity Today within minutes of it's being posted. Very disappointing.

UPDATE, 12/9/10, 8:30 AM: I was mistaken. Sometime late last night, all the comments that'd been held or disappeared from the Christianity Today post (mine, and everyone else's) reappeared, and are still there as of this morning. Should that change again, I'll be back, but I expect that a moderator there was either new, or a little overzealous in protecting the Christian (or more likely, the Christianity Today) brand, and that the situation has been fixed for good. (That's what I hope pray, anyway...)
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Previously: American Niiiiihilist: American Power: Elizabeth Edwards: Nihilist

What'd I Say?: In Reply: Elizabeth Edwards: "this was a time for prayer, good wishes, and Christian mercy"

In Reply: Elizabeth Edwards: "this was a time for prayer, good wishes, and Christian mercy"

In reply to Elizabeth Edwards Dies | Politics | Christianity Today
(And please see the updates, below.)
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While I can appreciate those who wish for everyone to know God's love and mercy, I take issue with Donald Douglas' tone and timing in essentially berating a dying woman for not believing that God intervenes in the lives of men--Donald's post actually claims she does not believe in God at all, but the quote from the 2007 American Prospect article posted above (as well as in his original post) says she does believe in God, but doesn't believe God would cure her cancer, even if asked (in part the result of God not intervening to save her son from dying, another sad chapter in her life).

Elizabeth Edwards was not anti-religious or a nihilist who rejected her faith, as Donald claims. Like many--especially those who've had tragedy in their lives, but also everyday people who haven't, members of the clergy, and unless I miss my guess, at least one person you know personally--she questioned her faith, and wondered why bad things happen to good people, and what God's role is in such events.

Rather than attacking her for not believing as he did, and then turning his guns on those he doesn't agree with politically-- as though they are in some way responsible for Mrs. Edwards believing God gave us life, a path to follow, and free will, (yes, Dan, even Elizabeth Edwards believed it was God who gives us those guidelines, and obligates us to live by them, in order to receive enlightenment and salvation), but that He does not protect us from all harm, even if we ask Him to --Donald could have suggested we all pray that Elizabeth Edwards found the God he believed she'd lost, in her remaining days (or as it turned out, hours).

The way I see it, this was a time for prayer, good wishes, and Christian mercy, not recrimination of a dying woman and the gathering of political points. That is not the Word found in my Bible (but then, I am a Unitarian Universalist (born Roman Catholic), and Donald takes issue with my religious beliefs, as well. Nowhere in Donald's post linked above does he speak of praying for Elizabeth, and for her everlasting soul.

(What does God and the church say about dealing with those who don't share your faith... or even your denomination of Christianity? It has been awhile, I admit, but I don't believe I was ever taught to berate or shame others for not being a Christian (or as Christian the folks who attended my church, rather than that Episcopalian one on the next block.) Is recrimination and literally "holier-than-thou" attitudes really the name of the game, or is Donald himself perhaps in need of some intercessory prayer, to help him bring others to God and the Bible without beating them over the head with such a Good (and often heavy) Book? (I'll certainly be praying for him, regardless.)

To everything, there is a season... ...I'm just not sure this was the season for Donald to be planting faith, or for that matter, whether his seed was any good, anyway.
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UPDATE 1: Christianity Today deleted the second part of my comment (everything after "(or as it turned out, hours)." I find that odd.

UPDATE 2, 12/9/10, 8:30 AM: Sometime late last night, all the comments that'd been held or disappeared from the Christianity Today post (mine, and everyone else's) reappeared, and are still there as of this morning. Should that change again, I'll be back, but I expect that a moderator there was either new, or a little overzealous in protecting the Christian (or more likely, the Christianity Today) brand, and that the situation has been fixed for good. (That's what I hope pray, anyway...)
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Previously: American Niiiiihilist: American Power: Elizabeth Edwards: Nihilist

Subsequently: What'd I Say?: In reply: Elizabeth Edwards: "How about we just let God sort it all out instead of judging Mrs Edwards or her imperfect faith?"