In Reply: "...it'd be great if we could all wish everyone we see a "Merry" or "Happy" whatever..."

Revised and extended, in reply to the following comment at In reply to Rhode Island Outraged Over “Holiday Tree” | FOX News And Commentary: Todd Starnes:

Rodney Duncan · Dallas Baptist University
@ W James Casper: "I am in a predominately Muslim country with large number of Buddhists/Taoists and Hindus. When it is Christmas - all of my many friends from these various groups say "Merry Christmas " to me (they probably have not heard of political correctness). When it is is Deepavali - I say Happy Deepavali to my Hindu friends. When it is Chinese New Year - I say "Happy Chinese New Year" to my Chinese friends. When it is the end of fasting month I say "Selamat Hari Raya Puasa" to my Muslim friends. That is being inclusive and no ones seems ot be offended. Secular American need to get over it and get the chip off their shoulders and realize it is ok to rejoice with others in the celebration of their special days - even if you are not observant of their religion. That is real tolerance."
---

@Rodney Duncan: But if I may, that isn't the issue, and it isn't strictly a "secular American" problem. Here, the issue is several holidays all right around the same time, and an inability to look at a person and know which one(s) s/he chooses to celebrate... ...and essentially having everyone assume you're a Christian because that is what most folks are, rather than Jewish, or Hindu, or Muslim, or none of the above...

I'm all for the kind of inclusiveness you talk about--and I hope that folks wish you a Happy Deepavali and the rest when those holidays come around, too--but this would be more like saying "Selamat Hari Raya Puasa" to you INSTEAD of Merry Christmas, because you're in a majority Muslim country...

The situation among your friends sounds good... Knowing the backgrounds, ethnicities, and faiths of your friends, you all offer each other the appropriate holiday greeting at the correct time... But the question is, what would you do if Deepavali fell on Tuesday, Ramadan ended yesterday, Christmas was on Thursday, and you didn't know who celebrated which, given the number of folks who may've converted from the faith most associated with their ethnicity? Would you treat everyone as a Muslim, because that is the dominant faith where you are, wish everyone a Merry Christmas, because that is your faith, or would you employ some variant of "Happy Holidays!!," so as not to offer anyone the wrong holiday greeting and perhaps offend them?

I think it'd be great if we could all wish everyone we see a "Merry" or "Happy" whatever, even if they're not actually of that particular faith, and have it be taken and accepted in the joyous spirit in which it is intended, rather than as some kinda slight... (I personally try to have a very happy Hannukah whenever possible, though there isn't a Jewish bone in my body.) But assuming that everyone is a Christian because most folks here are--or because YOU are--just isn't the way to go...
---

Posted 11/30/11, 6:00 PM (or so)
---

More: memeorandum

In Reply: "we Americans are not all Christians, and we don't all celebrate Christmas"

In reply to the following comment at Rhode Island Outraged Over “Holiday Tree” | FOX News And Commentary: Todd Starnes:

Steve Stevenson: "I don't see any one trying to rename and change hannakah or the other days of celebration, just Christmas, making it a day to sell goods, not what it is about. But Christians are the ones being attacked here, as everywhere, which kinda makes me believe more that it is true, I respect all other beliefs, it is a free country, but Christians are being attacked not only at Christmas but everyday, put a cross in your yard and someone complains but put any other religious symbol up and no one cares. I salute the lady Rep for standing up to this, it is an important fight as anything else as it does effect freedom."

@Steve Stevenson: I think what's happening is that the unfair advantage that Christmas once had here in America each December is being righted... When store employees blindly wished everyone a Merry Christmas, it was no more or less of a slight to some non-Christians than "Happy Holidays!" (or "Happy Hanakkah!!," or any other festive but non-Christian greeting) is to some Christian shoppers today.

The fact is, we're not all Christians, and we Americans don't all celebrate Christmas... It's not exclusively the Christmas season, and they're not all Christmas sales, Christmas shoppers, Christmas concerts, Christmas pageants, Christmas decorations... While I'm sure it was nice back in the days when the mob ruled, and non-Christians were supposed to just grin and accept it when their whole town and country celebrated Christmas all around them, those days are over now... Now we protect the rights of the minority, too...

I'm sure stores would LOVE to wish every person celebrating a particular holiday the greeting most appropriate to them--and I bet that in almost every case where the clerk is sure of the holiday a particular customer celebrates, they do (and I'm fully down with those "It's OK to wish me a Merry Christmas" buttons some folks wear, so that clerks and cashiers do know)--but one's religion is not tattooed on the forehead... Wishing everyone happy holidays covers all faiths, and New Years, taboot... (And it's better'n wishing everyone Merry Christmas on Mondays, Happy Hanukkah on Tuesdays, Sweet Festivus on Wednesdays, ...)

The tree thing is a little more silly... Though it's origins are pagan, a decorated evergreen is known as a Christmas tree, these days... but there is nothing wrong with making the yearly lighting ceremonies more inclusive by also including non-Christian decorations, and billing it as a holiday lighting festival... a Festival of Lights, as it were...

Or, if a locality can afford it, have a Christmas Tree Lighting... And then have a Menorah Lighting Celebration, and / or a Kwanzaa Festival, and / or a HumanLight gathering, so it at least looks like the town or city is trying to meet the needs of all of it's residents, as opposed to only addressing the needs of the majority faith and culture. (Another great thing about America is that we defend the minority against strict majority rule... Even if there's only one non-Christian, he has as much right to have his faith recognized and celebrated by the local government as the Christian majority, and every right to complain if he believes he is being treated unfairly before the law.)

As for the rest, it's kind of in the eye of the beholder, I suspect... While I don't know where one would go to find proof either way--I'm offering no more or less evidence than you are--I suspect that there are proportionately no more complaints about Christian iconography than there are about non-Christian (sacred or secular) iconography, and that a whole lot of the complaints are based on height, zoning restrictions, community covenants, or other non-religious issues, besides.
---

Posted 11/30/11, 4:14 PM
---

More: memeorandum

In Reply: Instead Of Fighting About The Winter Holidays, CELEBRATE Them...

In reply to Rhode Island Outraged Over “Holiday Tree” | FOX News And Commentary: Todd Starnes
---

After reading all the other comments (and making one, myself) all I can say is I wish you all a Merry Christmas AND a Happy Hanukkah, AND a beautiful solstice, and that's to say nothing of Kwanzaa, Festivus, HumanLight, and all the other December to remember holidays and celebrations open to you, one way or another... Whatever sacred and/or secular traditions you personally follow, I hope you take a moment to enjoy each of these holidays and give a thought to the people that do celebrate the ones you don't... They deserve a happy holiday just as much as you do, and it'd be a far better world if we could share our traditions with the folks not like us, rather than playing silly one-upsmanship games... The fact that we are a pluralistic multi-ethnic, multi- religious society is one of America's great strengths... But only if we're willing to teach and to learn and to relish our similarities and allow for our differences... (For the record, I'm pretty sure ol Link was just trying to be inclusive, not diss the tree or Christianity... It IS a Christmas tree, but it's also just one part of a pretty religiously and secularly crowded holiday season, and I think it's a pretty good idea for everyone to recognize that...)
---

More: memeorandum
---

Posted 11/30/11, 1:02 AM

In Reply: Whose Tree Is It, Anyway...

In reply to Rhode Island Outraged Over “Holiday Tree” | FOX News And Commentary: Todd Starnes
---

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the whole decorating of evergreens was a Yule tradition, not a Christian one... ...and it's mighty funny to watch these christian traditionalists argue in favor of such a pagan tradition... (On the other hand, most folks of all faiths do recognize that even though it was once a pagan tradition, a decked out evergreen IS generally known as a Christmas tree, these days... Rather than changing the name of the tree, places prolly ought to have holiday lighting ceremonies, where they light the tree, and a menorah, and a crèche, and whatever other sacred and secular decorations the locality intends to display on behalf--and for the enjoyment of--the residents. This whole "war on Christmas" thing is a silly distraction meant to divide us... And sadly, it seems to work every time...)
---

More: memeorandum
---

Posted 11/30/11, 12:04 AM