IRT: "I truly believe Johnson thought Guam would tip and capsize."

In reply to:

Respac: I believe I’m a fairly open-minded person and give people the benefit of the doubt, even Liberals, which has dubbed me a “liberal ass kisser” and a “traitor” from many on the Right. With that being said, I truly believe Johnson thought Guam would tip and capsize. Here is my reason:

In his first comment to the Admiral, Johnson states he is concerned with the island becoming over populated which could result in the island “tipping and capsizing” and he uses hand and body gestures to PROVE his point. A person making the argument of a “tipping point” would most likely not use hand and body gestures .

When the Admiral reassures Johnson that “they” don’t expect that to happen, Johnson THEN proceeds to contest using the environment, ecological system, coral reef and “stuff like that” argument.

IF Johnson’s major concern was the environment and ecological system why didn’t he present it in his opening statement? - Law and Order Teacher: NAPOLEON WAS RIGHT! - April 7, 2010 4:22 PM comment by Pamela D. Hart

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Pam: All I can say is I don't see it that way, and, at least so far, haven't heard anyone who knows the guy or was actually in that room who does see it that way.

If you want me to critique his delivery of the humorous metaphor, I'll agree that he could've done better. But not being good at delivering a humorous line isn't the same as not trying to deliver one... (Watching the video again, I thought I even detected a slight smile on his face as he makes the "tipping" motion which is, unfortunately, mostly obscured by his hands... YMMV...)

The population argument is of a piece with the environmental impact argument, rather than two separate points, and a person trying to use a metaphor for "tipping point" very well may make that motion... (It's not as though he wasn't saying the island might literally tip over; it's that he meant it figuratively, saying that the increased population and environmental impact will bring the island to it's tipping point. And watching the video again, it's pretty apparent that the guy has a little Italian in him, and says pretty much everything accompanied by hand gestures.)

It's a matter of interpretation, and I can no more prove I'm correct than can those who think he's stupid or incompetent... Should he make other statements that bring his intelligence or ability to think and reason into question, I'll revisit my position, but not having seen any myself, or heard reports of any from credible or non-biased sources, I'm comfortable believing he was trying to make a reasonable and valid point, and simply did so clumsily... ...as evidenced by all the folks who failed to understand his intended meaning.

I find my explanation much more likely that the one some folks on the right are positing; that the people of GA failed to notice that they were electing an idiot to represent them in the House. With respect to the cynics and the sophisticates here, I prefer to have more evidence before branding anyone an idiot or believing that our crop of elected officials is full of 'em... If you believe that makes me naive or a happy idiot myself, so be it...

For all the labels I hear tossed around about libs in general or me in particular (nihilists, anti-Americans, blame America firsters), I seem to be the least "down on the US" person in this conversation... I believe we elect good men and women, and for the most part, they selflessly do their best for the country and it's citizens... (While I didn't agree with Bush or his policies, I believed the same about him, too.) Naive? yeah, maybe... But I'd much prefer to naively think the best of us and give folks the benefit of the doubt--at least until they don't deserve it anymore--rather than believe that they all suck, and America's done for... I couldn't live with that kinda cynicism, and as I said above, I feel bad for those who do...
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Law and Order Teacher: NAPOLEON WAS RIGHT! - April 8, 2010 6:36 AM comment

IRT: "The less these people plague the nation with their stupidity the better for all of us."

In reply to: Law and Order Teacher: NAPOLEON WAS RIGHT! - April 6, 2010 9:45 PM comment by Law and Order Teacher
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"This guy is not competent to be in congress if he is too sick to speak clearly or think clearly."

I'm not making the "too sick" argument; I'm saying he's no more or less competent than anyone else in that room, and just tried to make a point with a "tipping over/tipping point" metaphor that many misunderstood--in some cases intentionally and willfully misunderstood, in the name of partisan politics.

But I'll go this far with ya... If he is in fact too sick to do the job, he shouldn't be serving. (He wouldn't be the first or only elected official I felt this way about, up to and including a well venerated and much celebrated Republican President who served during my lifetime...)

"I don't have a lot respect for most politicians of any political stripe. The less of them the better. The less these people plague the nation with their stupidity the better for all of us."

I always feel bad when I see folks on the right talk that way about the US government and the people we elect--and by extension, the people who do the voting, as well. I'm not saying elected officials are geniuses or Gods, but given all it takes to get elected and to serve, by and large, they ain't stupid, either. (It also makes me wonder why so many who feel this way about government and elected office turn around and work for or around elected officials or government--and in some cases actually run for elected office themselves.)

In this regard, we disagree... I believe that the people who run and who serve are intelligent and giving Americans who are doing what they can to protect and defend the country and our way of life... ...no matter which party they hail from. (That's not to say I don't disagree with some of 'em, politically or personally, but I neither think them stupid or un-American for believing in a different political philosophy than I do. Wrong, yes. Stupid, no.) I can't be so cynical as to think our government is made up of fools out to get us, and I feel kinda bad for those who are and who do...
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Reply posted April 7, 2010, 5:28 AM (LaOT blog time)

IRT: On tipping over and tipping points

In reply to: Law and Order Teacher (blog): NAPOLEON WAS RIGHT! - April 5, 2010, 9:39 PM comment by Law and Order Teacher (the man, not the blog)
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"First, I guess I'm humorless, but I don't get the "humor" and neither did the admiral. I couldn't have kept a straight face when the congressman said this.

I would certainly have been interested in some clarification of his remarks. If I had made this statement, I would have been compelled to offer some follow-up to it so as to identify it as humor, or in this case, lack of it."

I never claimed it was funny, only that the "tipping over" thing due to overpopulation was intended to be a metaphor for the island reaching/surpassing it's ecological "tipping point" with the increased population and the demands on the area and it's natural and manmade services.

As for follow up, you're in luck, because he did offer some, not long after the media and blogs got going on the 'idiot" meme...

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“I wasn’t suggesting that the island of Guam would literally tip over,” said Johnson. “I was using a metaphor to say that with the addition of 8,000 Marines and their dependents – an additional 80,000 people during peak construction to the port on the tiny island with a population of 180,000 – could be a tipping point which would adversely affect the island’s fragile ecosystem and over burden its already overstressed infrastructure.

“Having traveled to Guam last year, I saw firsthand how this beautiful – but vulnerable island – is already overburdened, and I was simply voicing my concerns that the addition of that many people could tip the delicate balance and do harm to Guam.” - Hank Johnson and a "capsizing" Guam - Political Insider, Atlanta Journal Constitution
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A later statement on the Congressman's website simply said "The subtle humor of this obviously metaphorical reference to a ship capsizing illustrated my concern about the impact of the planned military buildup on this small tropical island." - Rep. Johnson's statement on Guam comments in an Armed Services Committee hearing
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And even the folks in Guam seem to get it...
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"Madeleine Bordallo, Guam's delegate in the House, told Kuam News that she understood Johnson's comment was in jest. "I know Congressman Hank Johnson, and I'm sure that -- he's been here to Guam -- so I'm sure that it was just a joke," she said.

Furthermore, Bordallo added, she is not concerned about Congress being ill-informed about the island. Over 50 percent of the Armed Services Committee has been to Guam, she said." - Guam Tipping Over Comment No Concern for Guam Officials - Political Hotsheet - CBS News


I get that the guy looks foolish in the video--especially if that's what you're lookin' to see-- but don't accept that he, or the people who elected him, really are dumb enough to believe that islands can/do tip over if not correctly weighted. (Everyone who's anyone knows that islands are for more likely to sink quite evenly down before any tipping would occur...) If the man really did lack that much intelligence, it's pretty unlikely that this incident would be the first and so far only indication of it...

Anyway, them's the statements you was suggesting you would've made, if you was in his shoes... Apparently in that regard, anyway, you and he came to the same well thought out conclusion... You can decide for yourself whether that makes your intelligence level somewhere down by his, his intelligence level somewhere up near yours, or just dumb luck by one or the other of you... 8>)
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Comment posted to Law and Order Teacher: NAPOLEON WAS RIGHT! on April 6, 2010 12:19 AM (LaOT blog time)