Showing posts with label Discrimination. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Discrimination. Show all posts

Saturday, April 13, 2013

In Reply: "Speaking out is seldom if ever un-American, whether in support of Geller and her bigotry or in opposition to it." (Bigotry, Pamela Geller, Dishonesty, Free Speech, Protest)

Revised and extended, in reply to the following comment at the post Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch:
"repsec3 here is the official reason given by the synagogue (not PG) for their withdrawal. They were worried about the safety of their children, etc obviously from radical Islam! What's not to understand? Nearly every time there is a conference on shariah or radcial islam, the hotels etc are pressured to cancel as happened here by a government official no less among others. It's deniers like you that enable their UnAmerican tactics...
'As the notoriety and media exposure of the planned program this Sunday have increased, so has the legal liability and potential security exposure of our institution and it's [sic] member families. In an era of heightened security concerns it is irresponsible to jeopardize the safety of those who call Great Neck Synagogue home, especially our children, even at the risk of diverting attention from a potentially important voice in the ongoing debate.'"
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My Reply:

Funny that you choose to include "obviously from radical islam" in your response, when that obviously wasn't in the synagogue's statement. The only announced protest in opposition to Geller's appearance that I can find was organized by members of the Great Neck Synagogue, who intended to hold up signs across the street. The interfaith organization and the rabbis who were opposed pretty specifically said they did not intend to attend or to stage any protest. In fact, the only real push for a large on-site protest was being made by Ms. Geller's supporters. (And that's to say nothing of the armed bodyguards she announced she'd be bringing with her. Necessary or not, I'd imagine that they upped the synagogue's potential legal liability and security exposure.)

Now, I do think it was somewhat short-sighted of the synagogue to choose to have this event while the children were attending Sunday school at the same time--and I question why they didn't change the time of the event once they realized it would likely be an issue--but the fact that any protests might frighten the children or make it more difficult for their parents to drop them off and pick them up--both fully reasonable concerns--is not the same as suggesting that any individual or group threatened the safety or security of a single parent or child.

Speaking out is seldom if ever un-American, whether in support of Geller and her bigotry or in opposition to it.
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Posted: 12:13 am on Saturday, April 13, 2013
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Added Links:
Sunday, April 14 Event Cancellation : Great Neck Synagogue
Shul Cancels Pamela Geller — But Fails To Take Stand – Forward Thinking – Forward.com
Chabad to host Geller after Great Neck Synagogue drops controversial speaker - The Island Now: News
Geller Forum Shifts To New Venues | The Jewish Week
Controversial anti-jihad blogger will bring armed guards to synagogue speech | PIX 11

Friday, April 12, 2013

In Reply: "Geller has every right to speak. But free speech does not guarantee an audience, protection from criticism, or the use of someone else's soapbox." (Dishonest media, Pamela Geller, Bigotry, Free Speech)

In reply to the following three comments offered at the post Great Neck Synagogue Cancels Speech by Pamela Geller - Great Neck, NY Patch:
"The fact that you went to the state-run media confirms the fact that you're a low information voter. Did you happen to ask the police?"
and
"Not everybody agrees that it is bigotry. Why are you trying to rob people of the right to hear anything they want to.Are you the parents of those who wish to listen and formulate their opinions after hearing Ms.Gellar,"
and
"Geller's not a bigot, YOU ARE.

Geller speaks the truth about islam and the Left's joint group-grope against America and Israel, and you and the far left and jihadis threatened a riot at the synagogue, forcing the cancellation.

Keep it up, you will eventually get the violence you are aiming for, but you better have bought your toe tags by then, because you won't like the result."

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My reply:
"Not everybody agrees that it is bigotry."

Not everyone agrees that it isn't, either. So why would you want to rob people of the right to say they believe it is bigotry, in very much the same way as you accuse others of "robbing" Geller's "right" to speak. (Geller has every right to speak. What she doesn't have is a right to speak at a private venue that finds her speech offensive, or dangerous. Free speech does not guarantee an audience, or someone else's soapbox to stand on, either.)

"threatened a riot at the synagogue"

Any citation for that? Because again, no media source--including this one--is making any such allegation. The only person saying anyone was threatened is Pamela Geller, in her interpretation of the synagogue's decision. No one from the synagogue, or the media, or the local police has reported any confirmed threat to any person place or thing. (And with respect to Natalie's "state-run media" comment from yesterday, I'm pretty sure that Mr Jacques is not a tool of the government... Not positive, mind you, but pretty sure... YMMV...)
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Posted: 3:29 pm on Friday, April 12, 2013

Thursday, July 22, 2010

In Reply: Shirley Sherrod, and the "Discrimination" of Helping Your Own Community

In reply to Breitbart & Co. trash the truth: USDA official Shirley Sherrod was just the most recent casualty, and in particular, to a guy named Anton1, who said:
Shirley Sherrod is a self-proclaimed reformed racist. That is undeniable. Her actions, feelings, and thoughts during her employment were admittedly racist. That is undeniable. Albeit later, she realized the error in her bigotry, and all is forgiven, UNLESS, you happen to be a white farmer under her self-proclaimed bigotry BEFORE she realized her errors. When did she realize that her bigotry and hate for white people was wrong? How many instances of racial bias, had been purpotrated by her, BEFORE her self-proclaimed epiphany? Why are these qustions not being asked? Is it possible that with this prior self-proclaimed hatred for whites, she has opened the door for multitudes of lawsuits from white farmers that feel as if she didn't "give the full force" of what she could do? Does anyone think her self-proclaimed "opened eyes", at some unknown point in her life, will protect her, and her employer, in a court of law? The TRUTH stands, as is.

(The comment system at the Daily News is really shitty, so I can't say whether what he wrote had paragraph breaks before he hit send, but it definitely came out without 'em... just like my comment did.)
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@Anton1: With respect, I'm not sure how much of a racist Sherrod ever was, though I do think she had some bigoted ideas and attitudes... She seemed to be more of a "separate and equal (and eventually, better) kinda gal, who put all her efforts into helping her own, and just paid as little attention to white folks as possible. While that kinda thing isn't always "kumbaya, we are the world," it generally isn't illegal or immoral, either. (In fact, many groups/segments of the general population do that - women's groups, jewish groups, alcoholics, cancer survivors, professional/union organizations...) People choose to do things to help and advance themselves and their own, both in their spare time and in their professions--and even when it means not helping folks who ain't in their group--all the time.

There likely were no "other/previous white farmers," because she had always worked for co-ops whose whole mission was to help black farmers. (And don't forget, the whole story begins with the words "The first time I was confronted with helping a white farmer...") That the Spooners were even sent to the black co-op was a fluke, and she really was under no obligation, legally (or otherwise, depending on your morals) to help them at all--it wasn't in her or her co-op's job description.

But she did help them, even initially, doing the minimum required--literally, the least she could do for them. And it was through helping them that she realized they were no different from any of the other (black) farmers she'd helped, and that it wasn't about skin color, but about need and ability.

While there can be, and often is, some overlap and grey area between 'em, there's a difference between being racial and racist, to traffic in special interest/identity politics and to be a bigot. It's good to be proud of your own race, religion, gender, etc (all those individual attributes that you were born with and that you've chosen for yourself, that make you you); and it's good to want to help your own community (those who share one or more of those attributes that make you you), as well. But at the same time, it means that you're discriminating against those who aren't in your community, by not doing as much for the outsiders as you do for the insiders--and even by looking at them as outsiders and insiders. It can be a fine line.

Personally, I think it's ok (if not outright good and even necessary) to "discriminate" in that way; to have an in group and an out group, and even to do for some and not for others. (Contrary to the rumors, I'm not actually a commie Marxist socialist, at all.) It doesn't all have to be equal for everyone, in effort or in outcome.

In fact, it's a lot like a literal community... say, your own neighborhood. If you and your neighbors decide to take it upon yourselves to pick up trash or turn an empty lot into a playground or a ball field, that doesn't mean you have to go into the next neighborhood and do the same for them. You don't owe anyone outside your neighborhood your spare money or your free time, just because you got together and did for yourselves, donating one or both to your goals. (You can even set restrictions on folks from outside the neighborhood using your new playground or ball field.)

It gets a little trickier, ethically, when it's not a community of proximity like your neighborhood, but a community based on those things that so often divide us, like race, religion, gender, etc., but I think similar rules apply. In my opinion, that's what Shirley Sherrod was involved with, a group of like-minded black farmers helping themselves and each other to save and improve their own "neighborhood" of farms. The Spooners were just from another "neighborhood," and Ms Sherrod wasn't sure she should be giving her time to them, when her own "neighbors" still needed so much help, and she had pledged herself to them. In the end, Shirley Sherrod decided to spend more of her time working and playing in a bigger, more inclusive neighborhood.

When it comes to these trickier communities--the ones that so often divide us--it really depends on one's own heart, and the real and true motives contained in it, which may not be obvious to others... ...and on always drawing the lines between "us" and "them" in disappearing ink. That's where Shirley Sherrod went wrong, initially... She spent her earlier years using a big ol' permanent marker, until she realized how much better a solid pencil with a really big and often-used eraser would be for everyone...
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Comment revised and extended from original

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