In Reply: Standing up and speaking out against on and offline bullies is about encouraging us not to passively accept their nonsense and to protect and defend ourselves and each other.

Revised and extended a little, in reply to the following comment at the intentionally lyin'assed Other McCain post "Portrait of a Stalker Troll: @Repsac3, Also Known as Walter James Casper III," by "journalist" Robert Stacy McCain:

Actually, no...that's exactly what it's like within fandom communities. Politics, fandom...it's generally the same online because the Internet is like never leaving junior high.

And...you missed my point. But I think I know what the problem is. I'm sure you know what the Streisand Effect is. (My personal favorite example is the now infamous Charles Carreon) So here are a few helpful guides. (Sorry for the language, folks)

The Complete Guide to Not Giving a Fuck.
The actual advice in here is a little questionable, but the important thing is the point that people are going to believe things about you that you don't think are true, and no amount of "setting them straight" is going to change that, like our friend Girl B's situation. She just wants people to hear her side, too. Does it work, though? Nope. The only thing you can really do is Not Give a Fuck. And as the writer notes, most people neither know nor care. I certainly didn't, and I can tell you this fact right now: if you hadn't responded, I would have forgotten about you already. Really.

My guide to not giving a fuck // Alden Tan.
This one, IMO, has more practical advice, primarily because he's pointing out that bitching on social media won't solve anything. Seriously, I don't even use it to vent. Private journals are a wonderful thing.

And finally, my personal favorite:

wadewilson: Internet Drama And You.
Though this is centered around that wacky subset of fandom known as roleplayers about whom I plead the Fifth on knowing anything about, it's still good advice about this issue. (So you can skip the whole "Pretendy fun time games" bit...unless you want to apply that to political discussions online. Because really, is anyone in any position to do anything even paying attention to us? Ha...big bag of NOPE.) But the big point here is that even though you might not start Internet drama yourself, you can end it.

Oh, and have I been there? You bet your ass I have. Someone on one of these commiseration spirals had badmouthed a good friend of mine. It hurts even worse when one of these spoiled little girls insults someone I care about, but part of learning to not give a fuck was learning that their opinion of her wasn't even worth the thought I was giving it. They weren't going to change their single functioning collective brain cell over it, so I had to make the hard choice to just drop it. Was if fair? HELL NO. Did I have a right to defend her? Sure I did. Was it worth it lowering myself to their level? Not even remotely. But ultimately, I just wanted these mouthbreathers to leave us alone, and they did. The price of that was allowing their short attention spans work in my favor. That's pretty much the universal Internet currency of peace of mind: letting people forget about you. - La Pucelle

All I can say is we disagree... In my opinion you put entirly too much responsibility on the people being attacked, and virtually none on the people doing the attacking. I would never want to live in a world where people--victims, potential victims, and good people everywhere--don't stand up to bullies, online or off. Standing up and speaking out isn't about convincing the bullies; with very few exceptions, they're a lost cause. It's about encouraging the rest of us not to passively accept their nonsense and to protect and defend ourselves and each other.

You certainly can ignore a single isolated incident or two (and yes, it probably is in your best interest to do so, for exactly the reasons you describe.) But follow McCain's link to Donald Douglas' behavior over the last year or so one more time. These are not single, isolated incidents and they are not motivated by anything I do or do not do. The behavior shown at that link is Donald Douglas' responsibility and cross to bear. That he has chosen to make me the object of his "affections" has nothing to do with me, and my pretending that he isn't behaving the way he is isn't going to make him stop behaving the way he does toward me.

In any case, adding the guy's posts to a list the way I do may not be your solution, but it surely isn't stalking, harassment, or trolling, either. I trust you can see that. (If it helps, think of the list as my tiny contribution to Dr. Douglas' own little Streisand Effect. His attempts to obfuscate his responsibly for his strange behavior, and instead accuse me, is just as deserving of that sort of pushback, is it not? I mean, it's not like you're saying no one should've posted about Charles Carron's (or Babs') bad behaviors, right?)

Thanks for the conversation, though... I appreciate your thoughts, even though I don't entirely agree with 'em...

Personally, I'm glad you haven't "forgotten about me already"... Aside from the enlightening conversation, your willingness to discuss it with me renewed my longstanding belief that, even here on the internet, not every partisan from the "other" side (or "our" side, for that matter) is obligated to behave like all is WAR!!! While I don't plan to spend much time in McCain's comment sections, I hope to run into you again.
--

Posted Thursday, January 9, 2014, 10:25 AM (or thereabouts)
--

When I was posing La Pucelle's links here, I took the time to read them more thoroughly than I did initially. The following, from The Complete Guide to Not Giving a Fuck, actually argues for my position, and I'm sorry I didn't notice it until long after I posted my reply comment to him on McCain's site. (It may also explain why he found some of the advice there "a little questionable."):

STEP 4. Tell the truth.

You don’t need to be an asshole, but the world does not need another conflict-avoidant, evasive person. No one wants another individual who steps in line with everyone else. The status quo is doing fine without you, so it’s up to you to call bullshit if you see it.

In Reply: I don't agree that I should willingly silence myself against those who lash out and lie about me, even if I'm throwing away the opportunity to be the better man by speaking up

Revised and extended a little, in reply to the following comment at the (surprisingly, willfully dishonest) Other McCain post "Portrait of a Stalker Troll: @Repsac3, Also Known as Walter James Casper III," by "journalist" Robert Stacy McCain:

OK, here's the deal: I'm going to give you a fair shake because you're actually coherent. (unlike Schmeldfelt) I was right, I've seen this before. Specifically on LiveJournal fandom communities. As much as I'll admit that I look down on teenage girls in fandoms, they've provided a lot of insight and some of them have been surprisingly mature. So here goes.

Girl A and B are in the same fandom, let's say Doctor Who, and they both write fanfiction. Girl A is upset at Girl B for some reason, let's say that Girl B doesn't like the Doctor/Jack Harkness "ship" and writes Doctor/Martha fanfiction. So Girl A starts writing gossip on her LJ about Girl B, and Girl A's clique gets in on it. And even worse, either Girl A or one of her clique starts posting in one of the many anonymous communities about Girl B and her fanfiction. (They're like 4chan. If you don't know, don't ask. Believe me, you're better off not knowing) Every manner of high school gossip you can think of, with a bunch of "anons" badmouthing Girl B among a relatively small community. However, they keep their gossip and badmouthing to their own journals and the anonymous community; they never contact her directly.

Now, Girl B usually has two options. The first option is to go on these communities to defend her reputation. Occasionally, the friends of the injured party also get in on the act to defend their friend, i.e., "whiteknighting", thereby escalating the incident and earning Girl B a reputation as a "wanker", someone who drags out drama. By answering drama with more drama, Girl B ends up making a bad reputation all on her own where one usually never existed in the first place.

The other option Girl B can take is ignoring the threads about her on anonymous communities or on the journals of Girl A or those of her friends. And eventually, the drama started by Girl A fades away, since Internet memories tend to be short unless there's something to the rumors or the issue is exacerbated and artificially extended by Girl B herself.

Is it fair? Hardly. Welcome to human nature. But it's been accepted by both courts and by piddling little online fandoms alike that being gossiped about online is not cyberstalking. When badmouthing crosses over into direct and continued contact, it becomes bullying, and persistent following of someone crosses into stalking. One tweet does not constitute stalking or bullying, but continued attempts to contact a target is, even if the stalker in question thinks he is "trying to set the record straight." No one else sees it this way, nor will anyone but the stalker ever see it this way.

So that's pretty much where we are right now. You have the same options as Girl B. - La Pucelle

First off, the nature of partisan blogging is that it is confrontational... We frequently post on our blogs about the facts, ideas, and attitudes that another blogger is discussing on his, sometimes in agreement, but far more often in opposition. Sometimes the confrontations are all about the ideas, and sometimes they get personal, but ether way, it's built into the thing in a way it more than likely isn't in the communities you're describing.

That said, there has been no contact between Dr Douglas and I in about 9 months. He posts about me on his blog or via twitter, and I respond in kind, posting about what he said or making note of the fact that he once again lashed out, on my twitter feed or blog...

Sure, I have the choice not to post... (...just like Dr Douglas does, and just like every blogger or commenter or twitter-user does, just before posting about what some liberal/conservative asshat said on their blog.) But being cowed into silence because the crazy ass who's writing about you will be somewhere between slightly-and-somewhat more likely to post additional crazy shit about you if you respond to what he says (and will perhaps have friends who'll pile on along with him, taboot) is no way to live your life...

I call Donald Douglas out when he attacks because much of what he says is patently untrue, and he shouldn't be able to lie about me on his blog without my pointing out every lie he tells on mine if I so choose...not even if some think that not doing so would be the smarter or more "sane, grown-up" way to behave.

I understand what you're getting at but no, I don't agree that I should willingly silence myself against those who lash out and lie about me, even if I'm throwing away the opportunity to be the better man by speaking up... (I decided a few years ago to curtail being the guy who lashes out in the first place as often as possible--and yes, I have at times failed at doing that, since...but that's about as far as I'm willing to go...)

(As an aside, if even half of we partisan bloggers and commenters were sane grown-ups, the partisan blogosphere would shrivel up and die.)
---

Posted Wednesday, January 8, 2013, 10:45 PM (or thereabouts)