I See ol' Don has taken umberage (edit: umbrage) at my earlier post about his Cooooomunists!!! He even wrote a whole new post attacking me over it: American Power: REPSAC = CASPER: Deranged Stalking Asshat Denies Revolutionary Communists in Madison. We'll just skip over his ever-present ridiculous ad hom about me (stalking, raaaaacism, some bullshit making fun of my screen name, involving snakes or something, ...), and go straight to the meat of his post.
"And what was the lie? Well, the lady at the video is from the Trotskyite International Socialist Organization, and she says 'I'm a public employee and so are a lot of our members.' If Repsac's gonna call me out as a liar that'd be nice if he'd provide a transcript of the video"Funny how Donald attacks others for not doing things he didn't do himself. Donald didn't supply the transcript in telling his lie (or in his rebuttal post, for that matter), but he expects me to provide one to set it straight. Besides, I supplied the video, and suggested that folks watch it as many times as they found necessary to convince themselves that what I said was true. Donald invented a quote that didn't exist, and stuck it in the mouth of his twenty-something scary cooooomunist girl so he could attack her for what HE said. And no amount of denial can change that.
I said earlier that all of her "members" were up every morning organizing for the dictatorship of the proletariat, because, well, that's what Marxist-Leninists and Trotyskyites do. And that's called inference.Is that what he did? Let's check the facts (seeing as Donald neglected on both occasions to provide that transcript, or in this second post, a link to his earlier words) Here's what he actually said in that first post: "What's fascinating is how the lady speaks about how "all of our members" are up every morning organizing for the dictatorship of the proletariat." Was that an inference, or a statement Donald is offering as fact, about what the woman actually said in the video? Like the Fox folks say, we report, you decide... I've told you what I think.
He goes on to deny that there were any communists in Madison beyond this "pair" of revolutionaries.Transcript of my doing so? No, of course not... (And he calls me an asshat?) I did no such thing. What I said was, Donald only managed to show this one pair (and use them to suggest that everyone in Madison is a communist symp). If there were as many as his headline and verbiage suggest, he've shown more. I never said or suggested that these were the only two, which is why Donald "neglects" to provide that transcript of my words in his rebuttal. They don't exist, except in his own mind.
I don't know exactly how many communists and socialists have been, are, or will be in attendance at union protests. What I am pretty sure of, however, is that the proportion of actual communists to actual capitalists has been, is, and will continue to be pretty tiny, and that any suggestion to the contrary is rightwing propaganda. So yes... I'm sure Donald may be able to show as many as ten or even twenty communists in videos of these protests, but when compared to the number of people in attendance, those ten or twenty will be a very tiny fraction, and they will in no way represent the whole of political thought. While it's fine to focus on the more "out there" folks, it's dishonest to suggest that they are anything more than the fringe, as Donald appears so willing to do. The same is true whether it's bigoted signs or articles coming out of the Tea Party, or cooooomunists!!! at union or anti-war protests.
"perhaps --- --- --- --- --- (Am I really obligated to repeat Don'a ad hom? If it's important to you, follow the link at top, and read it at his blog) REPSAC might check out Trevor Loudon's report, Communists Converge on Madison":Yeah... Because why wouldn't one take the unsubstantiated word of a neocon blogger from New Zealand to "report" on events in the US midwest? I swear... One neocon lies, and the next swears it's true (or uses it as evidence of fact, anyway).
Every communist and socialist group in the U.S. Midwest is sending cadre to beautiful Madison, Wisconsin, in protest at Governor Walker's Budget Repair Bill."
Follow the link for yourself, and then come on back and explain why the NZ neocon's cite-free allegation is any more credible than Donald's cite free allegations... Trevor doesn't quote anyone... He shows a video (the same one Donald uses in his rebuttal post), and then make an unsubstantiated statement about "Every communist and socialist group in the U.S. Midwest..." So why should anyone believe him? Why should anyone take Donald's word more seriously because he quotes the guy from New Zealand, who quotes... ...well... ...no one? Can anyone explain why Donald, an associate professor of political science, believes that quoting Trevor Loudon's "report" proves anything, or in any way bolsters his case? Anyone? Anyone? Buller? Take your time... We'll wait. (One wonders whether Dr Douglas would allow his students to get away with such shoddy citations?)
In addition to the International Socialist Organization and the Chicago Maoist contingents, the neo-Stalinist ANSWER cadres were out in force, "Eyewitness report from Wisconsin." And also in solidarity is none other than the Communist Party of the USA, "The fightback fire is being lit down below." And from the International Committee of the Fourth International, another Trotskyite offshoot, "The struggle of Wisconsin workers enters a new stage." There's even an statement from some obscure local cell, the Socialist Party of Wisconsin, "Statement on Walker’s Attack on Workers." There's more, but no need to keep linking. Lots of commies are down with the Wisconsin Dems.Donald's "proving" something that isn't in dispute. Yes, I'm sure every communist and socialist group in America thinks the union protests in WI are a good first step. Some of them probably even believe that they signal the beginning of the communist revolution in the US, in much the same way as the folks who see the unrest in the middle east as the beginning of the End Times, or the fulfillment of one of Nostradamus' predictions.
The fact remains that even if every one of these groups sent five representatives to hand out flyers in Madison, that'd mean there would be 50 commies in Madison... And when we're talking 75,000 people total, that ain't but a fraction of a fraction. Donald's attempt to blow this minor fringe into something serious is laughable. Sure... Debate their crazy ideas... Laugh in their faces if it gets you off. But don't pretend they represent anything near a majority (let alone the whole) of the folks protesting, or of the democrats who're trying to keep this collective bargaining thing from becoming law. That shit just don't fly. The idea that there are "lots of commies" anywhere in the US, or that they represent any kinda threat to capitalism or to anyone, is kinda paranoid.
Probably every communist and socialist organization in America is supporting what a whole lot of good American capitalists are doing in Madison, WI, either as an end in itself (the first two articles Donald cites say nothing about communism or socialism; they're supporting union rights, as written in current US capitalist law.), or as the first step in the coming revolution. Personally, I doubt the latter group is correct, but I'm willing to allow them to join in the fight for good old capitalist union rights anyway, even if they do have some crazy ideas about what they think it'll mean for them.
Seriously. The woman in the video at top says she found the events in Egypt "inspirational" --- that is, inspirational for a new American revolution. Indeed, even Jesse Jackson made similar statements!I can't confirm who it was who ultimately said it first (but the woman in Don's video was purportedly interviewed on 2/19, and Jesse Jackson--who by the way was responding to a question about the Madison/Cairo connection, rather than making that connection himself--was filmed on Friday, 2/18) but you know who else said that?
RealClearPolitics - Video - Rep. Paul Ryan On Wisconsin Protests: "Like Cairo Moved To Madison" That was on 2/17. I hope Donald is as shocked and offended by Paul Ryan as he is by Jesse Jackson and the woman in his video.
(And will Donald ever understand "analogy," and the fact that the the two things being compared and found to be alike in one or a few specific way(s) are never--and indeed could never be--exactly the same? The world is not so black and white, "with us or with them" as Donald seems to see it. There are ways in which the protests in Madison are like the protests in Cairo. There are also ways in which they are significantly different. The fact is, people far more often compare apples to oranges than they do apples to apples, because in the latter case, there is no real comparison to be made. An apple isn't like an apple; an apple is an apple.)
And with that, let's go back to Rep[ad hom snipped]3: [Snip of my argument that a video of a pair of twenty something socialists at the union protest does not support the word or spirit of Don's post title about "Socialist Public Employees Call[ing] for Revolution in Wisconsin." If you haven't read it already, you can find it in my prior post.] I'm being indulgent, since it's frankly not going to make much difference to someone who refuses to acknowledge objective reality. I guess there's some epic comedy value in this, at any rate. Rep[ad hom]3 made the exact same argument after last year's "One Nation" rally, which saw dozens of individual socialist organizations participating: "Progressives March on Washington for 'One Nation Working Together' — Thousands Rally in Support of Socialist Agenda." And from Looking at the Left, "Democrats, Union Workers, and Communists Rally Together in Washington":Funny, how Donald provides no transcript or link to my making that "exact same argument," and instead links to his own post making the same tired, red-baiting "Cooooomunist!!!" allegations. (Sadly, No! ain't kidding when they say Donald sees communists behind ever potted plant. Donald often plants the pots, too.) Here's the link Donald failed to provide. (Please note, this argument was posted to one of Donald's McCarthyist posts, but he deleted it from his blog, in the interest of ideological purity, I guess...): The 'Imaginary Commies' in Dr Douglas' mind. And yes... As long as Donald offers the exact same "the cooooommies are coming" red-baiting, I will offer the exact same rebuttal of his nonsense. Yes, there are communists. No, they don't have much in the way of numbers or lend their socialist/Marxist/communist ideology to mainstream progressive or Democratic causes. If anything, it is them joining our movements, and not the other way around. Folks on the left don't take purity or loyalty oaths; we work together where we can, and part company when the protest is over. As I said before, Donald and his friends are not showing these communist groups getting widespread support for their ideology; at best they're showing them supporting the more mainstream liberal agenda (& more often then that, Donald & his fellow propagandists are showing a few communists or socialists at protests trying to recruit folks to their causes, not getting the time of day, and screeching that "[they] have in [their] hands a list of the names of [mumble mumble] persons who are known to be members of the Communist Party...," and alleging infiltration at the very highest levels, which, when you look at it (assuming they'll actually show it to you--as often as not, they refuse to show you the proof), amounts to the same old tired bunch'o'nothing.)
I've been blogging about the Democrat Party's progressive-socialist base for years. I had a series on this back in 2008, six months before Barack Obama was elected, which has been substantiated by events: "No Enemies on the Left? Progressives for Barack Obama." And checking the links you'll see REPSAC = CASPER flailing away in denial that long ago. [Decide for yourselves. While most of the comments to Donald's blog were lost when he stopped using haloscan, a few do remain, and serve as a testament to the lively debates that once went on, before Donald decided that only those comments he approves of may appear: Comments And this was the blog post in question.] It's pretty sad.Well, something's pretty sad, that's for sure... I didn't realize how long Donald has been trying to spin these half-truths into some kinda coherent "the coooooomies are coming!!" propaganda. Even back then, it was largely guilt by association and whispering inuendo. Sad, indeed.
At least a half-dozen books have been written since Obama took office, outlining the hardline socialist contingents that have propelled this regime to power.I wonder how many books were written alleging that Bush was an idiot, or foolish to invade a middle eastern country that was not a threat to us? The fact is, anyone can write a book, and many do. Whether or not they're factual, well-sourced, and not tainted by ideology is a whole other kettle of fish. Quantity (even a number as large as six) does not denote (or even imply) quality. I don't know whether "hardline socialist contingents have propelled this regime to power." But with all respect due Donald Douglas and his list of unnamed authors, I don't believe that should be the question. Who cares whether or not socialists propelled "this regime" to power? To really say something, you have to show that "this regime" supports hardline socialist interests. Having hardliners(?) supporting a mainstream Democrat would be a good thing, as it would make them far less hardline or extreme in practice than they are in words.
Gallup did a poll of ideology last year and found a majority of Democrats evincing a positive view socialism.I can't say for sure--and note that Gallop didn't either--but results like that likely reflect the fact that folks don't buy all of these "Stalinist" references folks like Don spew out. They see our "socialist" allies in Europe, and don't see them as evil, the way Donald seems to. It doesn't say these folks support socialism, it just says they react positively, rather than negatively, to the word. (They only had two choices, "positive" or "negative," and no definitions or descriptions were offered.) Whether one takes that as an endorsement depends on the opinion one came in with, I suppose. I don't fear Donald's eeeeevil socialists either, so put me down as a positive, too.
And a Pew survey at the same time found 43 percent of Americans under 30 supporting socialism, which was equal to those with a favorable view of capitalism. These young folks identifying with socialism are among the same youth cohorts that activated the college-level OFA groups that wedged the Democrats into office in 2008.I love when Donald tries to change the terms to prove his point. Follow that Pew link, and find any form of the word "support" or "Identify" anywhere in it. They aren't in there. Donald is making them up. (This is why Donald generally "paraphrases" what folks say, rather than actually quoting them. The words folks use don't often say what he wants them to say, so he substitutes his own terms, and bases his arguments for or against on what he says they said, rather than on what they actually said.) Forty three percent of Americans under 30 do not support socialism, or identify with it. They "react positively" to both "socialism" and to "capitalism" in equal percentages (43%). And about half respond negatively to both terms. Here is the actual quote that Donald "neglected" to cite via transcript:
"Among those younger than age 30, identical percentages react positively to "socialism" and "capitalism" (43% each), while about half react negatively to each."
Sad statistics? Perhaps. But hardly as sad as Donald pretending that the Pew survey says young Americans "support" and "identify" with socialism, just to make a point. That kinda disingenuousness is pathetic. (& isn't this lack of transcript what caused him to call me an asshat? Yeah, he really showed me, huh?)
So, let's be clear: Today's Democrat Party base includes a large segment of communists and socialist-progressives. There were roughly 80 socialists serving as Democrats in the 111th Congress.WorldNet Daily, Donald? Really?!? It's the Weekly World News of conservative conspiracy theories, most notably Corsi & Farah birther nonsense. Being published there is hardly a suggestion of accuracy (or sanity, for that matter.) Still, let's see what they're claiming...
Ahhh... DSA... I have no idea who the AmericanSocialistVoter used to be (the site no longer even exists), or whether their claim of seventy Democratic Socialists of America members in the House ever was true... but I kinda doubt it. The fact was, the progressive caucus page used to be hosted on Bernie Sanders' website, and he was and is is a proud DSA member. The rest of the list looks like the progressive caucus list, not a DSA list. Given the fabulist nature of WND (as well as many other con sites that pretty much echo the WND position in much the same was as our friend Donald does), and the appearance of a web page thaty can't even be confirmed, anymore, I'm not prepared to say for sure that these 70 or more folks ever were or are now DSA members. Maybe so, maybe not. And again, the DSA is hardly the dangerous eeeeevil socialist group Don's trying to portray in conflating them with the Stalinist communism that his McCarthy tactics imply. I know he's really trying, but it's a stretch.
The State of Wisconsin is one of most progressive states in American history, and thus it's no surprise that militant factions positioned Madison for a showdown against capital.I think Donald may've got that one right... though I predict that the protests in any other stats where they try to take away the rights of union folks will have protests just about as large.
[more bullshit ad hom snipped] And he's distorting what I said about the International Socialist Organization and he's lying about the absence of communists in America.As for what Donald said, the quote is there at the top of this post. Read it, and decide for yourself whether I'm distorting what he said. (Hard to do, since I QUOTED IT, and provided the video where she said no such thing.) ((One wonders what it was I was supposed to provide the transcript of, to prove that negative.)) And as for my lying about the absence of communists in America, I'm not, because I never made that claim. (Notice that Donald didn't provide any quote or link of my saying there are no communists in America? The reason is, I never said it. Donald is making it up.)
And if it weren't for bloggers like myself and others willing to expose these domestic enemies for what they are, the forces of leftist totalitarianism would be making even greater inroads.Yeah, Dr Douglas fancies himself some kind of conservative superhero... It's best to just let him masturbate that ginormous ego right out there in public... You couldn't stop him if you tried...
Conservatives will continue to have their work cut out for them, and I'll keep fighting these demons, despite the repeated attempts of idiots like RepRacist3 et al. to shut down this blog.I've said it before, and I'll say it again... The more Donald talks, the more folks see him for who and what he really is... The LAST thing we'd ever want to do is have him shut down his blog...
Previously: Donald Wets Himself In Fear Of "Cooooomunists!!!"
Next in the series: Guilty as charged.